Tag Archive | "passports"

Dual citizenship Q&A

Posted on 04 December 2008 by Cooksister

A while ago, there was a post on SA Rocks about dual citizenship, which generated some discussion and a whole lot of questions. I went back to that post last week and was amazed at the comments that it had accumulated, as well as the number of questions that people had about the issue. There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what forms are needed, where to find them, and what exactly the law says.

So I’ve put together in one place links to the resources that might be of assistance to those of you grappling with this issues, as well as answering the specific questions that were asked in the comments. Feel free to ask more questions – having been through the process myself I will be happy to point you in the right direction if I can. Please note that the info below deals with dual UK and SA citizenship only.

DUAL CITIZENSHIP – WHAT THE LAW SAYS

Here is an excerpt from the South African High Commission (UK) website:

South African Citizenship Act, 1995 (Act 88 of 1995)

Section 9 which regulated the deprivation of South African citizenship in instances where a major South African had made use of the citizenship or nationality of another country was repealed on 15 September 2004 by the South African Citizenship Amendment Act, 2004 (Act No. 17 of 2004) and replaced with the following sanction:

“A major citizen who-

(a) enters the Republic or departs from the Republic making use of the passport of another country; or

(b) while in the Republic, makes use of his or her citizenship or nationality of another country in order to gain an advantage or avoid a responsibility or duty
is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to a fine or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 12 months.”.

A South African citizen who by a formal and voluntary act acquires the citizenship of another country, automatically loses his or her South African citizenship.

Resumption (Section 13): A person who has lost or has been deprived of his or her South African citizenship may apply for resumption at any Home Affairs domestic office. Application must be on a BI 175 and a prescribed fee of R128-00 is payable.

To qualify, former South African citizens by birth and descent must have returned to South Africa permanently. Former South Africans by naturalisation or registration must have a valid permanent residence permit or exemption from such permit and must have taken up permanent residence in South Africa.

In a nutshell, this is what the above means:

* In the past, people who wished to hold two passports were obliged to get a letter from the Department of Home Affairs authorising them to hold two passports, and always had to carry this letter with them when they travelled. Recent amendments mean that you no longer need to have or travel with such a letter.
* you DO have to get permission from the SA government before you apply for your foreign passport. If you acquire foreign citizenship without first asking permission from the SA government, you automatically lose your SA citizenship
* you DO have to enter and leave SA on your SA passport, not your foreign passport (although you can use that freely outside SA)
* you CAN’T while in SA rely on your foreign citizenship to gain an advantage (e.g. VAT rebate) that SA citizens do not have.
* Travelling into SA on your foreign passport or trying to use your foreign passport to gain an advantage in SA is a criminal offence and can get you a fine or even land you in prison if you are caught.
* If you have already gone ahead and got a foreign passport without getting permission from SA, you can apply to get your SA citizenship back, but to do so you must apply in South Africa and demonstrate that you are living in South African permanently.

HOW TO APPLY FOR BRITISH CITIZENSHIP WITHOUT LOSING YOUR SA CITIZENSHIP

Step 1 Write to the British Home Office asking for a letter confirming that you have not yet acquired British Citizenship. The letter should not be more than 3 months old when you apply to retain your SA citizenship, so only get it when you are ready to start the process.

The office to write to for this is:

The British Nationality Division
3rd Floor India Buildings
Water Street
Liverpool
L2 0QN

Step 2 Fill in Form BI-1664 (ignoring paragraph 8) available from the High Commission website: http://www.southafricahouse.com/Consulate/Documents/bi-1664.pdf
This is your application to retain your citizenship despite taking on foreign citizenship.

Step 3 Fill in Form BI-529 fully – available from the High Commission website:
http://www.southafricahouse.com/Consulate/Documents/bi-529e.pdf All South African Citizens who are abroad at the time of lodging a passport application form must fully complete this form. The purpose of the form is to establish that as a South African Citizen you have not lost your Citizenship. If certain questions are not applicable the mark as N/A. If certain questions are not known, for example, your mothers Identity number, then mark it as “do not know”.

Step 4 Call the SA High Commission and make an appointment (the London telephone number is 09065 540 799). Yes, calls cost £1 per minute from a BT landline. No, there is no other way…

Step 5 Attend the appointment, taking with you:
· Your filled in forms BI-1664 and BI-529 as described above
· Certified copies of your current passport (only bio-data page and UK residence visa page need to be certified).
· Your letter (under 3 months old) from the British Nationality Division confirming that you have not yet acquired British Citizenship.
· A self-addressed special delivery envelope (obtainable from any UK Post Office) for the return of your documents.
· the prescribed fee of £10.00. Only cash or Postal Orders are accepted. Postal Orders must be made payable to South African High Commission.

A few days later you get a letter saying you are still an SA citizen and you can go ahead and get dual nationality if you want.

And THEN you can start the process of applying for British citizenship providing you have been over here for long enough legally etc etc – have to write a completely ridiculous “Britishness” test, then attend a ceremony and swear allegiance to the queen (!) and THEN you can apply for a UK passport. (Feel free to ask me questions about this process too and I will do my best to help.)

Obviously, all of the above is only applicable to people wanting to acquire UK citizenship in addition to their SA citizenship. Other countries have their own rules and some (like the USA) do not allow you to hold two passports at all.

Q&A

Here are answers to the best of my ability to reader questions:

On 22 Jan 2008, Kate asked:
Jeanne (or anyone else who knows!) – what reason did you give on the forms for exemption? It seems to be one of those “tell them what they want to hear” situations… only I have no idea what they want to hear!
Also, where do I find the 2 forms you speak of?
And should I do this sooner than later? Or wait until just before I apply for UK citizenship? (only eligible in a year from now)

Answer: As a reason, I just said that I still have strong ties to South Africa – family, property and investments – and I will be returning there on a regular basis.
See my explanation above for links to the forms, but all can be found on the http://www.southafricahouse.com website. I don’t think it really matters how long before you apply for UK citizenship you do it – the only time-critical thing is that the letter from the UK stating that you don’t already have citizenship must be less than 3 months old.

On 26 Jan 2008, Terence asked:
I also would like to know about those 2 forms that where mentioned. I am also applying in 12 months time for my citizenship. so im trying to get all the facts in order so I know what to do when i got to do it.

Answer: See my explanation above for links to the forms, but all can be found on the http://www.southafricahouse.com website.

On 4 March 2008 Liv asked:
Hey guys, just wondering if anyone knew what happens if you already got dual citizenship (SA/UK) but didnt apply for permission from the SA Government first??
What a numpty, yeah i know!
But seriously, before applying for british citizenship, i googled dual nationality, checked the sa embassy in london, home affairs website, etc etc. because i was worried about this exact same thing happening! But never came across this before! Ive only heard about it today from a friend who is also applying for dual nationality!!! I cant believe i may have lost my SA citizenship, well upsetting!
Is there anything i can do to retain my SA citizenship without giving up my English citizenship?

Answer: According to Section 13 of the South African Citizenship Act 1998, a person who has lost or has been deprived of his or her South African citizenship may apply for resumption at any Home Affairs domestic office. See forms required below and a prescribed fee of R128-00 is payable. To qualify, former South African citizens by birth and descent must have returned to South Africa permanently. There is no need to give up your UK citizenship, but you do have to demonstrate that you are back in SA for good.

Steps to follow
· Complete application form BI-175 http://www.southafrica-newyork.net/consulate/forms/bi-175e.pdf and BI-529 http://www.southafricahouse.com/Consulate/Documents/bi-529e.pdf.
· Complete application form BI-9 (ID book application) – only available at consulates and Home Affairs offices.
· Submit two ID-size photos.
· Submit a written confirmation by the applicant that he or she now lives in South Africa.
· Submit a copy of your identity document (ID).
· Submit a copy of your marriage certificate if you are married or have been married before.

On 11 March 2008 Sandra asked:
Hi
re_dual citizenship & passports:
I was born in UK and have been living in SA since 1970. I travelled once to UK (on a SA passport) but now that I have kids of my own and am married am looking at applying for UK passport. Do I still qualify for UK citizenship (I have my original UK birth certificate which is in my maiden name) I also took on my stepdad’s surname (which was my maiden name)
Can anyone direct me to the correct channels or organizations to help on my case?

Answer: If you were born in the UK before 1983, you are automatically considered British by birth and as such entitled to apply for a passport, but obviously you have to prove that you were born there. If your current passport is in a different name to your UK birth certificate, you need to prove each link of the chain of your name changes – your birth name, how you acquired your stepfather’s name, your marriage certificate if you changed names again etc etc.
There is a comprehensive explanation of British citizenship eligibility on Wikipedia and if you call the British consulate in your city in SA, they are usually helpful and knowledgeable and cal tell you what paperwork you need.

On 21 April 2008 Anita asked:
I have the same problem as Liv. I hold a Dutch passport though and did not apply to the SA Home Office to retain my nationality. I did my research but did not find anything. Have you heard anything further about this and if you can retain your SA nationality?
The SA website does not say anything about the 2 forms or that you need to apply in writing to retain your SA passport. They do say that you do not need the dual nationality letter to travel on another passport.
If anyone can let me know where i get these 2 forms from as my fiance is applying for his British passport – it would be most helpful.
Also if you have any info regarding apply to retain your SA passport – would also be helpful.

Answer: For the two forms you need for retention of SA citizenship in your fiancé’s case, please see the links in the “What the law says” section at the top of this page. And for how to reinstate your SA citizenship, please see my response to Liv directly above.

On 27 Aprl 2008 Jeanette asked:
Does anyone know the options of getting a British passport if your grandparents were born there? I would like to be able to come and go to UK as I please and not have to leave after 6 months, which is the case now as a visitor. I do not want to loose my SA citizenship either.
Any ideas for me?
Thanks Jeanette

Answer: You are not automatically entitled to a British passport if your grandparents were British. However, as a Commonwealth citizen with a grandparent born in the UK you DO qualify for an ancestral visa. This visa means you and your spouse can live and work in the UK for 5 years and then apply for residence, and a year later, citizenship. However, you would have to LIVE here in the UK in order to obtain a passport this way. You will not be able to live in SA for the 5 years mentioned.

On 25 May 2008 William Smith asked:
I was born in Englad and have lived in South Africa since 1956. I became a South bAfrican citizen in 1965 having broken my stay in S A. In the 1970’s I worked for a foreign government who objected to my travelling on a SouthAfrican passport. I got a new British passport and a letter, in Afrikaans nogaal, allowing me to travel on my British passport and instructing immigration officeres to stamp both passports when I left or entered South Africa. This worked weel as S A did not need me to have my passport stamped in the countries that I visited. I understand that I can still travel outside S A on my British Passport but cannot use it to leave of re-enter South Africa. If I go anywhere will the country that I am visiting want to know why there is no exit stamp on my British passport. Can anyone advise me?

Answer: The British authorities no longer stamp your passport when you leave – at least, they certainly haven’t bothered to stamp mine since I got it! The only country that stamped me (and even that was only in, not out) was the USA. I think that unless you are singled out for special attention, immigration authorities in most Western countries don’t really care where your SA exit stamp is.

On 17 June 2008, Justine asked:
Hello,
I was born in 1982, my mom was born in England and I am trying so hard to apply for a British passport. Is there anyone that has gone through this process that can help me? I am so desparate but don’t know where to go from here. Any suggestions are much appreciated.

Answer: Quick question – was your mom still a British citizen when you were born in 1982? If so, you are in luck! There is a specific form to fill in for people born to British mothers between 1961 and 1983 in order to register as British citizens.
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/form_ukm.pdf
There are various documents that have to be sent along with the application, including your and your mom’s birth certificate – these are listed in the guide to filling in the abovementioned form:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/applicationforms/nationality/guide_ukm.pdf
Your first step is therefore to obtain your mom’s full UK birth certificate. You can do this via online services like http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/order_certificates/obtain_certificates/how–to–apply–and–pay.asp

If you receive British nationality this way, your kids will only be British if they are born in the UK, not if they are born in SA.

On 29 June 2008 Jeunell asked:
I would like to know what reasons to give for retaining my South African Citizenship?

Answer: Well, what are your reasons? You have family there? A bank account? Property? You were born there? Those all indicate strong ties to the country and are all valid reasons to retain citizenship.

On 5 August 2008 Nikki asked:
I get my Portuguese citizenship when I was 14 I now realize that I may have lost my SA citizenship years ago.
But hey I got my ID and my Passport in South Africa and its never been an issue.
My advise is follow the rules, always go out on your SA passport and come back in on it as well.
I have a sinister suspicion that they only want the info for SARS trust me. Another thing the day the say you must choose which citizenship to keep is a big warning sign that we will be going down the same route as Zimbabwe.
I think it is unpatriotic to have dual citizenship for but I am only a patroit where my bread gets buttered.

Answer: It is possible that you did not lose your citizenship years ago because of this exemption:

People who have lost their South African citizenship under Section 15(1)(a) of Act 44 of 1949 (by acquiring foreign citizenship) before 6 October 1995 may apply for retrospective exemption, which essentially means that upon approval of such an application, the client will be deemed to have remained a South African Citizen when he/she acquired foreign citizenship.

Steps to follow
· Form BI-1666 to be fully completed http://www.citizenship.co.za/downloads/bi1666 Exemption from loss SAC.pdf You can ignore paragraph eight of form BI-1666.
· All clients must fully complete form BI-529 http://www.southafricahouse.com/Consulate/Documents/bi-529e.pdf (All South African Citizens who are abroad at the time of lodging a passport application form must fully complete this form. The purpose of the form is to establish that as a South African Citizen you have not lost your Citizenship.)
· A certified copy of your current South African Passport.
· Proof of how and when you acquired your foreign citizenship (e.g. naturalization certificate) .
· A certified copy of your South African Birth Certificate.
· A certified copy of your marriage certificate.
· A self-addressed special delivery envelope (obtainable from any UK Post Office) for the return of your documents.

But as you say, if you apply for an ID and passport when you are home in SA on holiday, nobody asks any questions at Home Affairs. But if you are worried, then you can always pursue the route above.

On 30 September 2008 Randall asked:
I will be applying for dual citizenship. I already qualify. I want to know one bit of info please – anyone. What do I say in the letter to the home offices? Do I ask them to state whether I have citizenship? Do I tell them why I need the letter from home office? What do I write? All of the above? What?

Answer: You tell them exactly what you want – there’s no trick to it. They don’t really care why you want it and they are used to getting these letters every day. A template could be:

“Dear Sirs

I am shortly going to be applying for UK citizenship. However I wish to retain my current South African citizenship and in order to do so, I need a letter of confirmation from yourselves that I have not yet obtained UK citizenship.

My details are as follows:
SURNAME:
FORENAMES:
NAME AT BIRTH:
DATE OF BIRTH:
TOWN & COUNTRY OF BIRTH:
SIGNATURE:
FULL POSTAL ADDRESS:”

The letter you requested will then be posted back to you.

On 30 October Ilse-Marie asked:
Hi everyone
I just applied for British citizenship about a month ago and didn’t know I needed to apply for dual citizenship to keep my SA citizenship! I still haven’t heard anything yet about my application for British citizenship, but was wondering – what difference practically would it make if I didn’t have my SA citizenship anymore? If I decide to move back to SA one day – does that mean I’ll have to give up my British citizenship (if I hopefully get it)?
Just a bit confused about it now!

Answer: It’s probably too late now to ask for the letter from the Home Office saying you are not yet a UK citizen as they will pick up that your details are already in the system being processed for citizenship. So yes, when you get your UK citizenship, as far as SA is concerned you will automatically lose your citizenship. Practically, it does not make much of a difference though – if you are living in the UK, why do you really need an SA passport? If you need to prove in SA who you are, you still have your SA ID book, right?

The only time you will want to be an SA citizen again is if you move back to SA. In this case, if you are no longer a citizen, you would get embroiled in all sorts of visa requirements, like other foreign nationals. But the good news is that as long as you move permanently back to SA and intend to stay there, you can apply to resume your SA citizenship (see “What the law says” above). Neither SA or the UK requires you to give up your UK citizenship to do so.

Popularity: 9% [?]

Comments (52)

Dual passports, who has what, where and how?

Posted on 02 November 2007 by Nic Haralambous

This is something that has interested me as I have gotten older. I love travelling and am always interested to know if we are allowed to hold two passports as South African citizens?

Does anyone actually know? I don’t.

And because I don’t know, I forced myself to sit and do some research on the topic, nothing too indepth mind you, just some online poking around. This is what I found:

You are allowed to have not only dual passports but dual citizenship too! Woop Woop! So invariably you can freely walk about the streets of SA comfortably knowing that you have two passports. EU/SA, SA/British, USA/SA, whatever, wherever it doesn’t really matter.

ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW IS THIS:

According to the South African Citizenship Amendment Act of 2004, that came into effect on 15 September, it is now an offence for locals with dual citizenship to use their foreign passports to leave or gain entry to the country.

It is also an offence for a citizen, while in South Africa, to use his or her foreign citizenship to gain advantage or avoid a responsibility or duty, says the Department of Home Affairs.

However, the new Act allows South Africans with dual nationality to freely use their foreign passports outside South Africa.

Sources: southafrica.info, globalbuss-sa.net

Popularity: 11% [?]

Comments (76)


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