Last night I was fortunate enough to be involved in an extremely interesting debate involving the owner of the zasucks blog (I’m still not going to link to that racist blog as I don’t want to promote it on this platform).
Blogs like zasucks helped me start SA Rocks. It’s because of people like those behind these racist and ignorant blogs that I do what I do.
So it was with great intrigue that I was called by 702 talk radio last to sit in on a debate centered around Bert Oosthuizen and the zasucks blog.
The story goes as follows:
Uhuru Guru was arrested this morning at around 06h30 on trumped up charges regarding an alleged offence dating back to 1993. His door was ripped off, his wife was not allowed to make calls, his children’s cell phones were confiscated, his little daughters were were ripped out of their beds, you cannot believe the cruelty!!!!!!!
A massive contingent of police from no less than five different specialist units, ranging from Organised Crime, Cyber crime, vehicle theft, etc; raided his home and confiscated all his computer equipment.
This arrest is motivated ultimately by the State. No doubt it has to do with zasucks.
When they finished the raid, two very grey, shady looking characters sat him down and questioned him about the blog. White, Afrikaans men, to boot.
They were told he would not answer any questions re the blog. They persisted and they were again, rudely this time, told to pack it in.
They then asked him what far right meetings he attended. The answer was none.Then, shockingly, they started questioning him about no less than Dan Roodt. They were again told no questions about Roodt either.
– source: zasucks blog.
I feel very sorry for Bert’s children and wife who had to be put through that ordeal. I do.
But moreso I am concerned that one man was able to trump up and waste police time on someone like Bert. While these police from 5 different departments were knocking his door down, real criminals were getting away with crimes on people who need protection.
Back to the talk show last night.
I have waited over 3 years to find out and talk with whoever was behind zasucks and I had to wait more than an hour to eventually have my say.
There are a few things that I need to say: Bert Oosthuizen is extremely intelligent. Oosthuizen managed to paint himself in a wonderful light, focusing himself as a victim.
In the entire 90 minutes that I was on 702 the only time the word “racist” was used was when I mentioned. I was extremely frustrated that Bert Oosthuisen was not once called what he and his website are. The appropriate words were avoided like the plague. I had no worries in changing the tone of the debate from one of pat, pat on the back to accusatory.
Bert seems to think that he is a citizen journalist. Let me just say that his delusions of grandeur are absolutely astounding. As a journalist and citizen journalist I am horrified and offended that Oosthuizen can actually consider himself to be a citizen, let alone a journalist in South Africa.
Bert said that he is ashamed to be South African, don’t worry South Africa is ashamed of people like Bert and his readers.
I am not going to get in to Bert’s comments about the media and conspiracy theory that they (yes, the entire media in SA) are out to dupe the Afrikaans public in to thinking there is no crime. In fact, I think crime is probably one of, if not the most, covered topic in SA media.
Oosthuizen seems to think that it’s OK to hate black people but it’s not OK to hate Jewish people. So he moderates the one but not the other on his site. He also claims that his site is not moderated. I’ve personally been moderated on zasucks numerous times.
What of plagiarism, slander, hate speech and inciting of violence? Let’s not get in to that.
He also mentioned that the website can’t be so bad if so many people visit it, well child-porn is massive on the internet and that’s not too good I’d say…
But I digress.
This is an issue that has played on my mind since the inception of SA Rocks years ago. These people still exist in South Africa. It’s shocking, but it’s true. Now, South Africa knows who they are. Clients, work mates, friends, acquaintances all know their names. There is no hiding any more. I think Bert is about to realize that he and his cronies are the exception in SA, not the rule.
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November 10th, 2009 at 9:41 am
About time that these websites were recognised for what they truly are. A racist, one sided view! I feel no pity for what his wife and children witnessed. I pity them for having to grow up in such an environment. They need to know that there is a real world out there!
Good for you Nic for saying it as it is!
November 10th, 2009 at 10:26 am
I was amazed at how diplomatic the guy sounded. He surely knows how to talk, but his way with speech is not enough to save him from the negativity he propagates.
Glad you were on the show, thanks for flying the flag high in the face of all the negativity around us.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:33 am
I listened to the show lastnight too; thanks for flying the flag Nic!
November 10th, 2009 at 10:34 am
I listened to the show lastnight too; thanks for flyting the flag Nic!
November 10th, 2009 at 10:44 am
I did my best, think it worked out well! Thanks for the support.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Not sure why South Africa should be ashamed of a person who shares his views ??!!! Are everyone who does not share your views/values ‘racist’?
On another note: Calling a white person a racist is just as derogatory as calling a black person a k*****, don’t you think?
November 10th, 2009 at 11:12 am
Bert Oosthuizen, yuck!
People (Poephol) like him make me sick.
Thank you Nic for standing tall, and fighting the fight in such a diplomatic way.
Juz
November 10th, 2009 at 11:52 am
Nic – no, not everyone who doesn’t share my views is a racist. But racists are racists and that’s undeniable.
I also don’t think that you are correct with your second note either. But debating wont get me anywhere so thanks for the comments.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Dude I’m with you on this. I didn’t hear the show but 702 have a history of beating around the bush. Generally speaking that’s because of the presenter and not the station.
That zasucks site is sad reminder of what we are trying to move away from. We still live in a country where racism does exist, on all fronts, and the longer sites like zasucks exist the more it perpetuates the problem.
I’m not what the police think they can do about Bert and the site but it appears to be a name and shame campaign. I’m generally not a big fan of this but at least now I know who I definitively don’t want to be associated with both personally and professionally.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Damn, seems I can’t spell either… please forgive my poor writing ability in my comment above
November 10th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Love this post. LOVE LOVE LOVE it! Well written and informative. I wish the zasucks chap spent more than a night in jail.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
You go Nic – I am about to move back home to SA permanently after 10 years of being. I was surprised how many SA follks in the UK use the zasucks blog as reference source in conversation when trying to convince me to stay! You would of thought that folks who harbour these kinds of sentiments would of either evolved or simply adhered to the motto – “vat jou goed en trek Ferreira”.
Any chance 702 will put the show online?
November 10th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
You idiots (you especially Justin) just cannot see the wood for the trees can you? The issue is not about racism, its about freedom of speech. If you lose that then everything else will fall. Yes, SA Sucks is a racist blog but we should all be focusing on a persons right to say what they want without state intervention (and no matter how you paint it that is what it was about)
You are so easily side-swiped that it is laughable. This “racist” flag that you all wave so eagerly is getting SO BORING and the main reason is that is some circles the only fall-back.
Bottom line is Bert should be able to blog whatever he wants (and don’t get all self-righteous and compare the written word to kiddie-porn – that just shows ignorance)
You take away that right and we are on the rocky road to being like that hell-hole Zimbabwe where the police arrest you in the middle of the night and you are detained for months without trail.
Time to catch a wake up dude!
November 10th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Sorry I missed out on this one – hope it’ll be a Podcast?
From time to time I’ve very sadly stumbled on that Blog and I’ve always wondered who this “Uhuru Guru” was, where he lived and whether he was a family man or a socially-deprived hermit with an Internet connection.
But I have to agree with Justin, now that the Uhuru Guru has a name, South Africans know what name to look out for in e-mails and on business cards – and boycott the living daylights out of this guy and whatever business he’s involved in.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
FreedomFirst if you want to debate then grow a pair and use your real name. You’re probably one of zasucks cronies if I look at the tone and theme of your comment.
Really……
November 10th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I too had a listen to the radio broadcast last night… just ironic to me how much the hate consumed them and how it maifests itsel. Now taking it out on each other. (blacks and jews now on the sideline watching the circus).
It just shows that hate & bitterness(towards anyone different) is never the answer. It will eventually consume you, clouding your judgement. Same goes with all the Malema’s with their extremist views. Eventully it will manifest itself.
And yes I agree with Nic, the manner in which the public speakers are throwing the word “racist” today is derogatory. But then again it comes from people with the same mindset of people who throw’s the “K” word around…. They just sit on opposite ends of the spectrum.
November 10th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Nothing worse than an idiot calling others idiots.
Firstly, when was he arrested because of what he said? Never. Bert saw this as a perfect time to conjure up some good ol’ paranoia. Which he evidently did to great success.
If he was arrested for having an opinion, different story. Did his opinion make him a prime target? Let me answer that with another question. Is Malema’s life in danger because of his ramblings? Yes, it is a trick question.
It is very easy to spread racist dogma and hide behind Freedom of speech. Freedom of speech should not be taken so lightly as it is making it very, very cheap. I’d go as far as to say that if you lift your opinion with a great amount of empathy, the need for Freedom of speech would vanish. It would seem that is simply too much to ask for.
I know of a couple of people who is very, very happy that the name and shame thing happened. They can now actually instigate proper crimen injuria cases. It is NOT okay to slander people and call them all kinds of names while you hide behind the (false) anonymity of the Internet.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:01 pm
I am astounded. A bit because I didn’t know this exist but mostly because it does. I don’t know what to say. You can’t really debate or communicate with people like this because of their stubbornness so I won’t try or start but I am deeply amazed… The obvious thing to ask, which has been said a million times I am sure, is why do they still live here? Really? Go live in Iraq buddy.
November 10th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Hello Nic
It was great to finally meet you on air last night. You were very articulate and intelligent, and made some excellent points, some quite valid, some rather disingenuous. For example, the kiddie porn analogy you desperately tried to pin on me just doesn’t fly, mate. If you must, then rather taint http://www.zasucks.com as a “political pornography” site.
I would welcome the opportunity of debating you again and regret that last night was so fleeting.
Nic, just a few points germane to this thread:
1) The main reason we guard our identities so jealously is to protect our families against violent or deranged stalker types, NOT because we feel embarrassed about our political convictions. I wish you could see the massive show of support I enjoyed from my clients, none of whom previously knew of my link to zasucks.com.
A secondary reason for blogging anonymously is to remove from you the classical leftist liberal tactic of launching ad hominem attacks. This forces you to assail our positions with logic, facts and reason – something which to date you have abjectly failed to do.
Your joy at my identity having been compromised seems predicated on a malevolent desire on your side to use bullying tactics to shut us up – naming & “shaming”, public excoriation, etc. Everything but actually citing the real reasons blogs like zasucks exists, hey Nic?
2) You accuse us of banning or blocking your comments. WSAS is extremely liberal in what we allow, and its ironic that the vast majority of comments rejected come from extreme right wing nut jobs propagating violence, sedition and harm to people. The only other time we hit ‘reject’ is when people flood the blog or go off topic. Please advise which nickname / avatar you comment under? If anonymously, I strongly advise you choose an avatar. This way you remain anonymous but can be identified through a fictitious brand.
We welcome debate and intelligent challenges, as it provides us with the opportunity of debunking the mindless, politically correct garbage so many people sheepishly subscribe to.
3) zasucks.com is NOT a neo-Nazi site. Most of our readers are intelligent professionals disaffected by the quagmire and dystopian hellhole SA has become. For this reason we do not allow anti-Semitic comments or discourse.
Secondly, it is not gangs of Jews roaming the streets of our cities, robbing, torturing and murdering innocent people of all races. It is not Jews raping babies, or Jews hijacking cars, or Jews committing farm murders and acts of urban terrorism. It is not Jews getting up on public soap-boaxes making anti-White threats and genocidal hate speech, resulting in more than 3 000 white farmers having been ethnically cleansed. I readily concede that not all blacks are criminals, but it seems all criminals are black. Are you with me so far, Nic?
What has always been remarkable to me has been this phenomenon of people such as yourself, who seem horrified at our readers & bloggers using racial epithets, but are unmoved at the unconscionable murders, rapes and tortures committed due to anti-white racial hatred. What a sickening disconnect – how can any thinking person take you seriously if you subscribe to such jaw-dropping double standards?
Thanks to you & Keanu + 702 / Cape Talk for allowing me to debate you last night. I hope you have the integrity to publish (unedited) this comment. I assure you I will reciprocate on zasucks.com – in fact, if you wish I will even allow you to publish an article right on zasucks.com to state your views, and no – don’t worry, I won’t demand any quid pro quo, save the right to respond via the comments section. Furthermore, I will arrange to put up links to sarocks.co.za – no need for you to reciprocate.
Nic, I have never feared nor ever been desirous of disallowing our opponents to have their say on zasucks.com. Contrary to what you and your readers may think, we at zasucks.com are not Neanderthal, hateful racists for the sake of thriving on hate. All is not well in our country, no matter how much you deny and downplay it, and the fact that blogs like zasucks.com.ILUVSA, and so uncountably many others exist, is grim testament to it. Instead of shutting us down and shooting the messenger, I respectfully suggest you examine the root cause, not merely the symptoms.
Regards
UG
November 10th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Brilliant response UG!
I was horrified by the comments about you by some of the posters. Clearly they have no inkling of your right to free speech, and the ordeal you and your family underwent was downright disgusting.
All the hate filled people on this site, please reflect for one minute on what really happened when UG’s home was raided. And those who feel the site should be shut down, your views come directly from the Nazis and the USSR Stalinist regime.
That is to say that if you lived under a Nazi, Fascist or Stalinist regime you would actually support these governments?
Supporters of Hitler, Lenin, Pol Pot and so forth. You are no better than those oppressors who caused the death of tens of millions.
Shame on you!
Now quit screaming “racist”! Deal with the facts instead of denying them. You can keep your heads in the sand and hope things will get better.
Nic I really hope you will take on UG’s kind offer to post an article on zasucks. I look forward to reading it.
November 10th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
People who say they are ashamed to be South African are narrow minded idiots. Being South African is a privilege that only 50 odd million should have, it is not a right. I didn’t want to get into name calling, but it’s the only language these racist fools understand.
My family came to SA from the UK when I was 4 years old. I was educated here, my friends are here, my heart is here. I have a wide circle of friends of all races, creeds and cultures. My girlfriend is Sotho, my best friend is Muslim, and I am a better human being for it. No where else in the world can you have this sort of meaningful interaction with people of all creeds and cultures. I don’t men to gush, but as South Africans we just don’t know how lucky we are.
I didn’t hear you on 702 and I’m actually sad I missed it, it would have been great cheering you on while you put this racist dipstick in his place.
I have been back to the UK on holidays to visit family and can only report that the grass is most certainly NOT greener on the other side. Britain is a nasty, drug ridden, angry, violent, un-ambitious place, with a glorious past, and no future. SA is alive with possibility, and we who truly believe in SA will reap the rewards of our efforts.
Bert Oosthuizen will no doubt end up in London, Perth or Auckland with the rest of the racists who left SA in 1994 fearing the worst. I say good riddance, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Sorry for the long post, but racism and bigotry are issues that my girlfriend and I face and have to deal with daily, an I can’t let it slide. Your website is awesome by the way, keep up the good work.
November 10th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
If you really try to make a difference, why does this site carry ads? Trying to make money? You will have much more credibility if you did not.
I think UG is being very nice to you. I listened last night and you sounded like a plaintive bleating sheep. You could not contribute anything except whine racism. Even Keanu sounded bored with you.
Wonder why you also publish his name? Like the other poster said about Nazis and fascists you guys are nothing other than fools who do not care about basic rights. If he does not agree with my views, chuck him in jail, destroy his business, kill him! You people suck.
November 10th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
One of the more despicable tactics adopted by racists is to exploit sociological data that indicates a disproportionately high level of delinquent or criminal behavior on the part of a targeted racial group and to suggest that it is evidence of the natural delinquency or criminality of the group concerned. This is predominately the tactics you apply, Uhuru Guru, that you treat such behavior as if it were purely a product of biological determination, entirely unaffected by social and other factors.
Crime is indeed a major concern in this country, and it is unforgivably incontestable and deplorable that murders as highlighted by you are committed. But they are also, possibly essentially, derivative crimes, born of the greater crimes of … oh dear … white society (colonialism, imperialism, etc.).
It is precisely the assumptions of your racist worldview that have been used by politician and legislators to justify the very discriminatory policies and institutions we have been burdened with under the apartheid regime, barely intellectualized and not supported by theoretical justifications, apart from fear and hostility towards, and contemptuous of, those who are different from yourself.
Where I certainly take no pleasure from the ordeal your family was exposed to, it has to be noted much of what you blame others for, is your own doing. Spurting sensational propaganda in the very manner void of understanding and empathy as presented on your site, is nothing more but pernicious poison, and screaming conspiracy theory, to my mind, makes you but a puerile braggadocio. A toxic brew, indeed, and one step away from fascism.
Unfortunately if inevitably, it is certain to take eons to eradicate from the popular imagination the ideas you spread, ideas that has done so much to blight societies and, as you yourself now experienced, the lives of individuals, regardless of worldview.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
http://www.eu2hell.blogsite.com
What’s your point?
Oh, ok: you bemoan that the word “racism” was as painstakingly avoided as you navigate around any sense of realism in SArocks.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
@Emil who says:
“Exploit sociological data that indicates a disproportionately high level of delinquent or criminal behavior”
You mean point out facts. What is wrong with that? So you would prefer to hide the truth. Better not point out the Politicsweb site which researched SA crime and found that percentage wise Asians are the group most affected by crime followed by whites?
Don’t want people to know the extreme disproportionate black versus white number of prisoners in the USA? And so I can continue, ad nauseam. Have a look at IQ and the Wealth of Nations.
People like you are weird. Despite the facts slapping you in the face, you would prefer to ignore them and howl that they are unfair.
Then you embark, oh jeeze, on yet another ad hominem attack. And then the old apartheid BS. Just cannot deal with the in yer face facts? Boorrriiiing!!!
Do have a look at http://www.iluvsa.blogspot.com. They have some excellent research on the issue.
November 10th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
I couldn’t agree more Emil.
Sorry for saying this, but I for one do draw great pleasure from the way he and his family was treated. Now he knows what it was like when his people were in power, and he knows how it feels to be looked at like a criminal when I walk through a shopping mall holding my girlfriends hand.
“Then you embark, oh jeeze, on yet another ad hominem attack. And then the old apartheid BS. Just cannot deal with the in yer face facts? Boorrriiiing!!!”
Veritas, no matter how hard you try to justify it, what your people did when they implemented apartheid was a crime against humanity. How dare you try to down play it like that.
The problem with people who hold Oosthuizen’s views is that they think just because SA has been a fully fledged democracy for 15 years everything is hunkey dorey. They assume that by comparing SA in the 70′s and 80′s they are comparing apples with apples. They point to things like “crumbling infrastructure” and say “it wasn’t like that when we were in power” in an attempt to prove the ANC is “running the country into the ground.” What they fail to point out is that there infrastructure was build in the 70′s and 80′s using exploitative labour practices and also fail to point out that when “they” were in power they used 100% of the country’s resources to improve the lives of 15% of the population.
But the sad thing is that they will never learn. You can prove them wrong based on sound logic and valid reason, and still they will stubbornly hold on to their outdated, naive and laughable views. And they will just pass their views on ton their children, and their children’s children…
November 10th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
@Veritas, thanks for the retort. (I typed this carefully so not to slip on the “o” and “a” keys).
I certainly do not personally attack Uhuru Guru, and believed you have misinterpreted the usage of the latin term ad hominem. Perhaps you attempted to accuse me of genetic fallacy?
Let me try to be more specific with the alleged ad hominem argument, and discuss my definitions of the terms used.
Racists are those people who destroy not the old, archaic and dangerous structures of spurious beliefs, but the modern. They destroy new cross-cultural relationships and severely strain the development of mutual trust between the different groupings of people in South Africa. They stir anger amongst the impressionable – existing stereotypes are strengthened, spreading doubt and apprehension. It is not necessary to provide detail explanations of the destruction, pain, bloodshed and carnage caused by racism – these are obvious enough when one page through any history book. It is neither from black or white, but from both. Racists are those people who use every means necessary through violence, power, “freedom of speech” and religion to perpetuate the destruction on both macro and micro levels, and to enforce their stereotypical view and bigotry upon society.
Racism refers to a belief system that a particular group of people is inherently superior to another, which in turn would then be inferior. The distinction between the separate groups is based on superficial factors such as skin color, origin, culture, religion and behavior. The superior group wants to be treated differently to the inferior group, and to rule over the latter. Racism is deeply rooted in historical, cultural, social and power concerns and almost always involves widespread oppression of people and the prevention of basic human rights and opportunities.
People think of the group they belong to as the “in-crowd”, and of others as “outsiders”. This is not only true of racists, but intolerant people in general, who allow for no opposite opinion to theirs. The “outsiders” are always viewed as a homogeneous group: “They are all the same.” Differences between the two groups are exaggerated: “They are so different to us.” Prejudice is then strengthened by incidents that confirm the stereotypes, such as black-on-white murders, or a few rich, spoiled white kids kicking a black man to death. Affirmative action, which might place incompetent people in important positions, will also strengthen the stereotype, creating the belief that black people in general are incompetent. Thus, when racism is embedded within the social structures of society, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
It is this thinking that I “attack”. I am not arguing against the facts. Crime is rife in South Africa. What I do refuse to believe is that all South Africans are tragically bound to, as Martin Luther expresses it, “the starless midnight of racism … that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality.” It has absolutely nothing to do with “the in yer face facts”, or blaming the previous regime. Perhaps a quick definition of the word “derivative” is appropriate … no?
zasucks choose to present the facts with all the inherent meanings as I expressed above – I choose to oppose that method and rather try to establish an understanding of the historical, cultural and political circumstance that, sadly, are always construed as “blame.” The shameful fact at the heart of zasucks, a contradiction between the most elevated principle (concern about crime) and the most debased practice (the manner in which it is presented), plays a central role in maintaining the defunct idea that South Africans can be divided into natural, biological determined groups. I fear that none of zasucks attempts have the welfare of the broader South African public in mind, and hides behind the crime statistic to spread the racists views of Uhuru Guru – this is the only true reality.
November 10th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
UG – why has the K***** blog link been removed from your blog roll? I noticed it this morning and showed my colleagues but now we’ve just noticed it has been removed.
Why try to hide it now?
November 10th, 2009 at 6:20 pm
Can you post an audio link to last night’s show? I want to hear the debate if it is available. Thanks.
November 10th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
@Emil
I’m rather impressed by your sterling effort to present yourself as an informed authority when it comes to socio-cultural phenomena such as ‘racism. But you are batting way above your abilities if you want to take tkae someone like the UG on. Do note that even an average commentator can deconstruct nearly every statement you’ve made.
But seeing that it is impossible to argue with those who think they know everything, I can only refer you to an article that would illustrate that the complexities, you so foolishly believe are simple, are incredibly multi-facetted. Google Albert Brenner’s article ‘The Death of the Noble Savage’
Regards,
November 10th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Come now, Piet. I am being criticized for debating an issue? For knowing it all? And you quote “Death of the Noble Savage” as counter? It is worth remembering that hate has small beginnings. It is understandable that communities which suffer prejudice and abuse should shelter behind a protective assumed identity. But, as the learned Brenner fail to recognize, identities grow rigid and become s source of new pieties, new excuses to repay evil with evil – and thereby further and indirectly entrench the very idea that lies at the root of the problem.
A friendly warning – when your hatred is too keen it puts you below those you hate.
Brenner’s article, brilliant in its exposition of the conservative worldview, assumes that people are basically weak and selfish and that life’s object is to maintain social order and stability. I, knowing it all, apparently, assumes that people are basically good and rational and that life’s objective is to extend human happiness, for a lack of a better word. My optimistic view of human nature means that I am socially progressive and enthusiastic about social reform and improvement, which – sadly – is in opposition to what I assume to be your worldview, since you don’t care to express any. Perhaps, knowing it all, and therefore privy to other clever people, the liberal William Gladstone has it right: “Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear.”
It must be extremely tough and difficult for you to live.
November 10th, 2009 at 9:05 pm
Nic, please allow me to add the following, and accept my apologies for hijacking your post (this issue does go to the heart of things).
@Piet, I also recognize Brenner’s other interesting points. Both assimilation and multiculturalism as response to ethnic diversity are indeed based on theoretical liberal principles. These principle create tensions at the very heart of liberalism and are certain to create alarms and anxieties between the elements that make up a modern multicultural society. When you live in France, as Sarkosy stated, your respect the rules. You don’t have lots of wives, you don’t circumsize your daughters and you don’t use your bath to slaughter sheep in. Surely the reverse is also true?
What is South Africa to you? A melting pot or salad bowl? Wait, I know your answer
November 10th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
@Emil
Thank you for your elaborate response. You said Brenner’s worldview… “assumes that people are basically weak and selfish and that life’s object is to maintain social order and stability.” Partly correct Emil but I tend to see a finely disguised Darwinist tendency in his writings. And how can one argue with Darwin, Emil? Thus your “optimistic view of human nature means that I am socially progressive and enthusiastic about social reform and improvement”….is just another liberal LaLa Land ilussion which, given our animal nature, will be trampled under by the Darwinist imperative of the Survival of the Fittest. Evolution is based on strife Emil, soemthing you cannot wish or social-engineer away. I personally believe the San Bushmen were the most civilized grouping of all but they didn’t have the wherewithall to ‘struggle’ successfully for their survival. And where are they now Emil?…they are EXTINCT! Soemthing you and all other multi-culturalists are forcing Caucasians to do as well. Your ‘progress’ is nothing other than the voluntary suicide of one of the most unique races in history.
“life’s objective is to extend human happiness”….well Emil, you of all people ought to know that different people have different definitions of what happiness is, or ought to be. What makes your definition beter than the Taliban’s? What criteria do you use to exclude the views of others, like the UG’s as well. Are you a Millsian believing in the best good is the good that includes the most people…but ignores the minority idividuals’ view of ‘good’ (like those on ZASUCKS)?
Contradiction upon contradiction Emil.
PS. if humans are inherently good, why haven’t we reached utopia yet?
‘What is South Africa to you? To me it was the Hope of Africa…till Africans took control.
November 10th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
@Piet, we hold to very different worldviews.
Without “Utopias” of other times, men would still live in caves, miserable and naked. Like Anatole France I believe that out of generous dreams come beneficial realities. The concept “Utopia” is but a mere principle for all progress. Let’s not forget that “Utopias” had existed, in conception, long before you and I had this altercation. Plato’s Republic, which also, ominously, sets an early benchmark for nastiness in imagined societies, whether they be liberal or otherwise, springs to mind. The ideal state envisaged by Plato is extremely authoritarian, with a philosophical elite trained as guardians, who alone have true knowledge and who exercise absolute control over the enlightened majority. Strict censorship is used to prevent wrong ideas getting about, and a eugenic policy is implemented to ensure that only the right people get to breed. Sounds familiar?
“Liberalism is the supreme form of generosity; it is the right which the majority concedes to minorities and hence it is the noblest cry that has ever resounded on this planet.” Thus Sprach José Ortega Y Gasset. It is evidence of social progress and individual freedom, the same “freedoms” UG pleads for.
In South Africa the flame of enlightened and progressive liberalism still burns, and I am happy for that. If you mean by the derogatory reference of it to me, I take delight in it as someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reaction, as someone who cares about the welfare of people (left and right). I am thus proudly Liberal.
Now, following along @Veritas’s accusation of ad hominem arguments, your reference to Darwin is very interesting indeed. Does survival of the fittest then not also refer to the archaic idealism of Afrikaner Nationalism? I would be very hesitant in these debates to infer biological and evolutionary correlations to our social order. The struggle for existence that lies at the heart of Darwin’s theory, with its stern implications of the strong prevailing over the weak, proves highly suggestive to many, who sought to apply its lessons in areas far beyond its original and proper provenance. Social Darwinism, as you suggests in this context, is an apt example. Herbert Spencer has long since been discredited, promoting the archaic idea of applying the principles of natural selection to an alleged process of evolution in groups, races and human societies. Survival of the fittest is indeed a harsh dogma (note the careful choice of word) that has to justify, in the name of human progress, “natural” inequalities in class, wealth and welfare; intervention by the state to assist those who where afflicted by poverty or were unfit in other ways was castigated as interference in the necessary biological weeding out of weak and unworthy elements. At its most perverted, as you prove, social Darwinism can be used to bolster the imperialist and racist ideologies of fascists, such as the agenda presented by zasucks.
This being the year of Darwin, I suggest you carefully scrutinize his original intend, and avoid the muddled and confused presumptions his theory is used for outside its acceptable application. In a letter to JD Hooker, Darwin himself implies the intend: “I am almost convinced that species are not immutable. I think I have found out the simple way by which species become exquisitely adapted to various ends.” It implies, by the nature of your argument, that you and I are therefore different species. Can this be so?
As an Afrikaner myself, I am very circumspect on how I apply Darwin to the social structure of South Africa. It appears that your argument in this sense is a mere contradictio in terminis!
November 11th, 2009 at 8:25 am
Emil. I think your time is waisted trying to convert sense into people like @Piet. His view of what SA is to him sums it all up. Typical of the out-of-date and single minded coservative facists. You have better luck teaching your Jack Russel to lift the toilet seat before using the toilet bowl.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Bert – Thanks for commenting and visiting SA Rocks.
There’s alot to respond to here so let’s see if I can get through it all as effectively as I’d like:
1. I am not happy that your true identity is out so that your life can become a living hell. I don’t wish anything bad on you or your kind. I do however live in the real world (contrary to what you might think) and I am almost 100% certain that when your clients, neighbours and acquaintances discover the true person behind the facade that your life will, without a doubt, become more difficult. I will have nothing to do with this and this is unequivocally NOT a threat in any way.
I understand that you keep your identity hidden for reason that you say push people like me to debate the issues. But this is a farce. You hide behind this. I am rational enough to debate issues with people, not online avatars. Debates are more lively and real when they are addressed head on. You cannot ever remove the person from the debate. Debates and differences of opinion are based on just that, subjective opinion. As much as you wish to say that your subjective opinion and twisted statistics are fact, they might be fact, but as seen through your own eyes. So I think that it’s good that you now need to defend your position as Bert, not the uhuruguru or any other online moniker.
2. Many times I have either been shut down and overwhelmed with threatening comments from your community, my blog attacked, my inboxed spammed with death threats and physical threats to myself and my family. I completely understand that this is not your doing or within your control but this community you so love and defend has lost the plot and you fail to acknowledge this. One can judge people according to who they associate with. You aren’t looking too good in that regard let me tell you.
Furthermore I don’t have an alias I used on zasucks, it’s been almost over 3 years since I last bothered to read or comment on the tripe that is spewed on the site. Sorry, don’t bother looking for comments you spammed or rejected, mine wont be anywhere there in the recent past.
3. I think you are very pushy with this Neo-Nazi stuff. No one ever called you a neo-nazi. At least I didn’t. I called you a racist. In my eyes it’s just as bad to be a neo-nazi as it is to be the level of racist that you are. The two are cut from the same cloth. Don’t attempt to palm one of as acceptable and the other as justifiable. Both are equally problematic. If you can’t see that, then so be it.
There is something else that eternally irritates me about the debate that you and the like put forward. Context. Context. Context.
Are you pissed off because you no longer dominate 90% of the population as you once did under the NP rule? Are you pissed of that you are now in the minority? Because let’s not forget that back in the day white people were still the minority they just murdered and took what they wanted in order to silence the majority. My how the tables have turned.
Further in to the topic of context. Don’t be so naive as to assume that statistics have nothing to do with the social game we are playing. I would like to see you go in to Soweto and see who the real victims of crime are. Have you been in to Soweto ever? I have. It’s not pretty. Us upmarket dwellers are most definitely NOT receiving the worst of it. Open your eyes and smell the death all over the country. The hardest hit by crime are those living in informal settlements. Don’t spew your statistical percentages to me, not until you’ve gone in to the depth of beasts belly and lived the life that the average South African lives. You are not the average South African. Nor am I. But I am African and I try to get to grips with the actualities happening around me.
Don’t judge me and my life and actions on a blog that I write. Judge me rather on the consistent way that I live and I act. I have been and seen and experienced what your more than likely choose to ignore as irrelevant.
I don’t challenge you and your statistics because sometimes, just sometimes, life is lived outside of statistical trivial.
Lastly, I completely agree that South Africa has problems. I am not naive, ignorant, blind or stupid. But I am hopeful. I still do believe that you and your readers and co-contributors are in fact, hateful racists who thrive on spreading your hateful message. Until you prove otherwise, my opinion stands. Please don’t equate the number of blogs that exist with the relative number of people who share your opinions, any idiot with internet access, a keyboard and access to google (as you know) can start a blog and call it citizen journalism. That doesn’t make it fact. Imagine if the other 43million people in SA were given access to the internet, shown how to blog and given the tools, what they would be writing and showing the world of their living conditions. The fact remains that it is mainly white South Africans and expats who have access to the internet. This is why people like myself and others like me take a stand against your kind, because those who should be standing up for themselves aren’t able to with thanks to the Apartheid regime that you so long for.
It is impossible to argue that Apartheid did no harm to this nation and we are better off without it.
Thank you for the offer to blog on zasucks, but I don’t think that anything I have to say would change the minds of your readers. Maybe you and I should get together and have beer, that would be a more fruitful debate. Your readers would hurl abuse at me that I just don’t care for.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Great post Nic. I don’t know why you tried to reason with Bert, because he is so convinced that he is right that he probably won’t even bother reading your post.
Against all my instincts and better judgment I googled ZAsucks and had a look at Bert’s website. I wanted to get a feel for what he was all about. I wanted to see what Bert is spreading, and what he and his “educated, professional clients” have to say about life in SA today. I have to say my visit to his website only lasted 30 seconds. I was so disgusted by what I read I nearly vomited I actually had to go wash my hands because I felt dirty. The use of caricatures of Madiba and President Zuma (yes Bert my dear, Jacob Zuma is the president of the Republic, deal with it) which form an arrow leading to a toilet is childish, untrue and defamatory. I could only cringe and shake my head when I read things like:
“Dear readers, bloggers and fellow Whites”;
“We need to secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.”
The final straw for me was when I saw the old SA flag proudly flying on the homepage of ZAsucks. This flag is a symbol of evil and oppression and the fact that you fly it on your website is offensive.
How dare you assume that all white folk think like you. I don’t, Nic doesn’t and I know millions of others who don’t. If the sole factor that binds you and your clients is the colour of your skin then you and “your people” are doomed to failure. And before you say “But you souties benefited from what we did”, the fact is that we didn’t. When I came to SA apartheid was on its way out, and my father, despite his qualifications and experience, couldn’t get a job for ages because afrikaaners where looking out for themselves. Add that to the number of times he was beaten up by you lot for having an accent, and its plain to see that we didn’t benefit at all from your evil, corrupt and oppressive system.
Now Bert, you are clearly a man of above average intelligence, so I am baffled that you could allow the Nats to brainwash you into believing this nonsense. Your site serves no purpose other than to destroy the good work that is being done daily in South Africa and spread a message of hatred. You are nothing more than a bitter hatemonger living in the past with pathetic opinions flying around in that head of yours.
That old saying goes “you reap what you sow” and couldn’t be more true for “your people”. You oppressed “black” people in South Africa for hundreds of years, split families, forced people to go live in there “natural homelands” and are now confused why people hate your kind and “target you” and single you out as the victims of crime. You lot have made your beds, now lie in them.
I am appalled and disgusted, I do not know how you can sleep at night. I have no idea why your website hasn’t been shut down yet.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:07 am
Nic … open your eyes. One day you will see that your ignorant view will cost you dearly. It’s not a threat from me. Yet I hope one day you remember this post one day when you have been affected by this, that SASUCKS makes aware to us all. So even if you moderate this before it hits your forum, I’m glad someone has read this.
November 12th, 2009 at 7:11 am
@Deeno, I guess you are correct. A Jack Russel, at least, IS teachable.
November 12th, 2009 at 8:13 am
Eish! That one dutchie on a mission can cause such a ruckus!? For me the state that arrests a man @ 06:30 on a day in November 2009 for something (alledged fraud of how much?) that he is supposed to have done in 1993 and then questions him about his published opinions is scary. What do the two have to do with each other? It means that the state is willing to apply its “violence” to individuals that appear to be against the them. It also means we all better watch what we say.
As for this whole racism thing; in SA it is not only a two way street but also to a large extent is starting to loose its original meaning in that it now means different things to different people. I prefer the word bigotry. In SA we have a double problem in that the bigotry is not only between races but cultures as well. I like the definition of “civilization as the art of meeting without fighting” and therein lies the challenge of creating a “new” civilization in SA.
But I stress about the 06:30 type action – definitely not cool… and I haven’t even started on climate change.
November 12th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
@Nic by and large I agree with you whole philosopher a you present it on this site but there is one thing that I have to call you out on.
You say “back in the day white people were still the minority they just murdered and took what they wanted in order to silence the majority”. I am white and back in the day, I didn’t murder or take just what I wanted. I don’t know anyone who did. My father was an immigrant who came to south africa, worked till he was an old man and then died. He didn’t achieve great wealth, and the little we got wasn’t because it was taken from a black person. The racists tend to label all criminals as black, because the majority of criminals are black – this is the same logic that you are using. You probably wouldn’t want to admit the role played by white people in getting rid of the apartheid government.
Bert and co : “all blacks are criminals.”
Nic Haralambous: “all white people are racists who got everything they got by murdering blacks.”
Nelson Mandela: in his speeches he still refers to ‘the white apartheid government’. why does he do that? (hint: its the same reason why the race of the criminals is always highlighted on blogs like zasucks.)
You are all a bunch of racists to the core that you dont even realise it – but that can be expected because you are all a product of SA. I would guess that the truth is a bit more complex than any of you racist idiots would admit
November 12th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
GeeMac – stop being such a prima donna and smell the coffee!
The way you write you would think you just managed to evolve from some primordial ooze!
Where have you been the last few years?
Try reading history…you may find there are lots of nasties out there – not just racists.
“I am appalled and disgusted….”
seesh dude…go back to sleep then!
November 13th, 2009 at 12:16 am
@ Geemac
I note you write under pseudonym. Please explain why?
To dignify some of the hysterical waffle you upchucked:
“The use of caricatures of Madiba and President Zuma (yes Bert my dear, Jacob Zuma is the president of the Republic, deal with it)”
Sorry if I don’t share your gushing enthusiasm for a corrupt rapist (and even murderer, if some tales from his doings in the 60′s & 70′s are to be believed) who used his political pull to quash no less than 700 charges of racketeering, fraud, money laundering and god knows what else. You need to check your moral premises, my friend. In the US and Europe, the immoral Zuma wouldn’t even be working as a government desk clerk, much less the president of the country.
“The final straw for me was when I saw the old SA flag proudly flying on the homepage of ZAsucks. This flag is a symbol of evil and oppression and the fact that you fly it on your website is offensive.”
Ja boet, you must be one of those brainless, unthinking sheep who have no problem with people wearing Che Guevara t-shirts or running around with hammer & sickle emblems. Communism killed more than 100 million people worldwide, how many did Apartheid kill? Do you even know? Less than 20 000.
How many died at the hands of ANC combatants in the period 1976 to 1994? About 25 000. We have 50 murders a day, 18 000 PA, 180 000 for the past ten years. And you freak out seeing the Prinsevlag? Check your premises dude. This is why I love arguing with people like you – you allow me the opportunity of deconstructing the fallacious, laughable propaganda memes you parrot.
The Nats never brainwashed me. I never voted for them, I despised them. For the record, the last time I participated in the farce which is the fraudulent 1994 SA elections, I voted DA & Inkatha FP. I suspect if anyone is brainwashed and so willfully ignorant of facts & reality, it is you. Catch a wake-up and read some intelligent material, there is life beyond Umsebenzi and You magazine.
“You oppressed “black” people in South Africa for hundreds of years, split families, forced people to go live in there “natural homelands” and are now confused why people hate your kind and “target you” and single you out as the victims of crime.”
Really? So if it was so bad, why did millions of blacks stream to fascist, racist Apartheid SA? Did you know that more blacks in SA owned cars, houses, TV’s than the entire continent of Africa put together?
I didn’t “oppress” anybody dude. If you have to know, my now deceased old man was a lawyer. Most of his clients were black & Indian. We used to receive them at our home in Linden, back in the ’70′s. We used to dine with them, and visit with them in Soweto & Lenasia. Many nights he used to get a call from someone whose door was kicked down by the security branch, to try and get them bail.
I often used to go with him to the JHB Fort to see these activists. I was raised to respect everyone and anyone, irrespective of creed or colour. I was taught that the only cure for racism is colour-blindness. So in 92 (referendum) I voted YES. In 94 I voted for a multiracial society where everyone would be equal before the law.
I did not vote for an anarchic, corrupt and decaying country in which my people, the Whites, would be legislated against in BEE & AA laws last seen in Nazi Germany. I did not vote for my people to be tortured, raped and murdered and then for supposedly anti-racist people like you to turn around and commit the same incredible racism (“we Whites oppressed them so collectively so as a race we DESERVE to be genocided out of existence).
Tell me white boy, how many blacks did YOU, your father or grandfather oppress? How many blacks were oppressed by the father & grandfather of Nic? Your argument is pathetic and I reject it with the contempt it deserves. And don’t come tell me “oooh Nic’s dad rocked up from Greece in the 60′s so he never oppressed anybody, he wasn’t a hated ‘dutchman’. Again, your own anti-white prejudice will show. Why is it uncool to say most blacks are criminals, but very cool to say most Afrikaners are racist? Are you beginning to see the disconnect? Will you ever?
The orange, white and blue flag might be detestable to some, but it is nowhere near as detestable as the y-front green, red gold & black standard you seem to be so enamoured with.
If I use your argument of trying to quantify death, suffering and complete anarchy under various regimes, then the NSA flag bears infinitely more culpability than the OSA flag. I’m not saying the Nats were a bunch of benevolent angels – far from it, I saw first hand their heavy-handedness.
But compared to the current bunch of murderous, thieving and corrupt criminals, who has stolen and killed more people in ten years than what the Nats was able to in 48 years, and who if I may remind you burned people to death with petrol and tyres to achieve power, PW’s gang do look like a bunch of Mother Theresa pussies by comparison.
It is this massive disconnect that you fail to see, simply because you refuse to. There are none as blind as those who do not wish to see. Perhaps one day the scales will fall from your eyes, as it did from mine.
November 13th, 2009 at 1:48 am
@ Nic Haralambous
Thank you for publishing my comments. As stated earlier, I am not ashamed of, nor embarrassed about my views. The only reason I ever chose anonymity was to protect my family whom I love dearly, and also to force debates to focus on the issues, not the writers.
You say in # 2 “I don’t look too good” because you were threatened, spammed and intimidated by people who didn’t like your views. Nic, please explain how you arrive at the conclusion that their conduct makes ME look bad? Surely you’re not suggesting that ZAsucks was a political party / gang / lynch mob which I headed, and whose goons I sent to harass you?
If one of your readers were to off me tonight, can you be held responsible? I suppose yes, provided you went out of your way to ensure everyone knew my name and my whereabouts, and incited them to do me harm.
If I got a rand for all the death threats issued to me in the past 4 years of blogging, it would be a sizable nest egg by now. So it seems we both suffered the same type of harassment, except from different sides of the political spectrum. At no point did I ever try and blame you for the conduct of your readers and / or ideological bedmates, so sorry boet, that one ain’t gonna fly. See what I mean – here you are already trying to pin labels on me which is patently disingenuous and false.
Monday night on 702 you claimed that you were censored and denied a platform on ZASucks.com, yet now you say you haven’t commented for over 3 years? I started the blog in November 2006, from its previous iteration as SA is crap. Are you being economical with the truth, Nic? Sorry mate, don’t want to call you a liar but making stuff up such as you’re doing now won’t cut it, and merely serves to impugn your own credibility.
You said: “Are you pissed off because you no longer dominate 90% of the population as you once did under the NP rule? Are you pissed of that you are now in the minority? Because let’s not forget that back in the day white people were still the minority they just murdered and took what they wanted in order to silence the majority. My how the tables have turned.”
Wow, I dunno where to start Nic? Who murdered to take what they wanted? Are you out of your mind to spew such ludicrous, slanderous fiction? I refuse to dignify such horse sh*t with an answer, save to say that if you stoop as low as calling all whites murderers, then you yourself are incorrigibly racist, incredibly ignorant of history, supremely hypocritical and a shameless liar to boot. I would certainly moderate such crap in the interests of remaining truthful & credible.
“Don’t be so naive as to assume that statistics have nothing to do with the social game we are playing.”
Nic, six weeks ago no less an august and credible body than the ISS (Institute for Security Studies) released a study which proved that Whites and Indians were right at the top of the list when it came to victims of violent crimes (which I rightfully call racist hate crimes but which you and the media try cover up as “ordinary” crime.) So by excoriating me for citing those grim, indisputable facts, you’re merely shooting the messenger.
I know of many instances where house robbers apologised and left on finding out that their victims weren’t white. I don’t know of a single instance where black criminals forced shards of broken glass up the vaginas of their black victims, or cut off the breasts and fingers of old black women, such as they did with their white victims in orgies of mindlessly violent racist hatred.
If it was true that gangs of white men roamed the suburbs of soweto (so as to rape, rob, pillage and murder) in equal measure as black gangs roaming white neighbourhoods, I wouldn’t have bothered blogging over the issue, let alone as a racial one. I probably would have blogged about it in disgust, and from an anti-crime perspective. Point is, these are incontrovertible facts Nic. SA has been in a race war, before as well as after 1994. Unfortunately, few people dare be as honest and forthright as calling it for what it is. The emperor is NAKED dude, he’s NOT dressed in a fancy invisible gold kaftan- when are you going to shake your slavish, obsequious lip service to the god of political correctness and stop faking reality?
Surely the absurdity of creating a blog called SA Rocks must have struck you? I mean, why go to all the trouble of stating something ostensibly so self-evident – which according to you is so painfully obvious – that SA really does rock? How many blogs are there that say “SA Rocks”, versus ones which say the opposite? There is something perverse and twisted in creating blogs & websites which exist only to state a supposedly self-evident “truth”. It is a question of doth protesting to much, plus the corporate sponsorships must be quite lucrative…
You know Nic, back in 1939 in Nazi Germany, there were many Jews who said precisely the same thing – Germany rocks, and all the anti-Semitism, Kristallnacht and race hatred was just a “passing stage” and “perhaps the greedy Jews deserve to be put in their place”. So, many Jews left (just like more than a MILLION Whites have left SA) but many stayed. Those who stayed had precisely the same sort of acrimonious exchanges you and I are now having. And we all know where they ended up, yes?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not downplaying or diminishing what happened during the holocaust. What I am doing is studying history and seeing the same ominous parallels being repeated here. Surely the utterings of Malema must send chills down your spine? If not, then you probably don’t realise the gravity and seriousness of the situation Nic. Mugabe is a man who single-handedly ruined his country, and is famed for inter alia saying “Our party must continue to strike fear in the heart of the white man, our real enemy!” as well as
“Zimbabwe is for black people not white people.”
Surely it troubles you that he makes such pronouncements, and is invited to SA to open our parliament, where our politicians give him standing ovations and speak of him in reverent, rousing terms?
Nietzsche said “those who were dancing were thought to be utterly mad by those who couldn’t hear the music”. I put it to you that I am dancing to music which you are not hearing, or are deliberately blocking your ears from.
Lets be clear on a few things here, Mr H: I’ve run ZAsucks for exactly three years now. A massive amount of work went into that blog – the time, the effort expended is had to quantify. All of this was done at NO profit. At no point did I ask for, or even accept the numerous offers of financial assistance, sponsorships or contributions, nor did I ever consider advertising even though we were regularly asked to commercialize it.
We at ZaSucks were not driven by profit, nor incidentally by sheer mindless hate, it might amuse you to learn. Sure there was hate – perfectly understandable and justifiable hate for the hateful, murderous savages who committed the most heinous crimes against innocent White men women and children.
I had two main purposes with SA Sucks, which was to encourage as many White compatriots to bring the ultimate sanction to this god-forsaken country and leave. If through my writings I achieved only ONE family to leave this country, having saved their lives and the lives of their children will be enough to validate my mission.
In that regard I believe I saved more than just one life and no matter how many times they come kick down my door, terrorize my wife and daughters, arrest me illegally on false trumped up charges and try their level best to ruin me financially, I take great comfort from the fact that somehow I was instrumental in ensuring a good future for a White family somewhere.
My second purpose was to debunk, alert and awaken my people to the toxic lies, malicious fiction and malevolent slander against our great and noble race, and to rid them of the vile poison you and your cohorts sell here – White Guilt and White culpability. I believe I’ve accomplished that mission with distinction and honour. You Sir, on the other hand are the judas goats leading good people to their certain doom. Yet I am weighed, judged and found to be the unpatriotic malcontent. I cannot but conclude that only financial gain is what motivates you.
As you’re now aware, I am shutting down SA Sucks. It has served its purpose, and I am confident that others will take the baton from me and my fellow bloggers. The time for your anti-White racism & guilt-tripping is over Nic. Whites all over the world are awakening to the truth. You cannot stop it – pro-White nationalism is making a huge come back as people realise what an abject failure multi-culturalism has turned out to be. If you don’t believe me, see the rise of the BNP in the UK, or of Vlaamsbelang in Belgium, and numerous other parties in Europe.
As for SA – only a fool can deny that we are not following the path of Zimbabwe, except in our case it will be much, much worse. You’re a talented, innovative and clever guy Nic, and although we stand at opposing ends of the spectrum, I respect you and salute you for having the courage of your convictions. Alas, it troubles me that one day, you may fall victim to the very same racist hate crimes so many of our innocent & decent compatriots have suffered.
I really and sincerely hope you will escape it, but sadly it is not a question of if, but rather WHEN. Do remember when one day that murderous bastard puts the gun to your head, no amount of protestation that you’re a anti-racist liberal, or citing the fact that you’re the brains behind SARocks, will sway him to spare you. Your white skin has become your de facto uniform, and therefore a legitimate target, whether you like it or not. Just get out while you still can – one day you will grudgingly thank me for it.
Best wishes
Bert
November 13th, 2009 at 7:45 am
BertO.
“Sorry if I don’t share your gushing enthusiasm for a corrupt rapist”. President Zuma was cleared of both corruption before the courts of our land. But seeing as you want to bring up his past is it fair for me to call you a criminal seeing as the police raided your house the other day?
I’m, not going to dignify your ridiculous post with any further response.
November 13th, 2009 at 8:52 am
Ok Bert you criminal, before you get excited, call me an idiot and spill your Klippies & Cola in an attempt to rush to your computer to correct me, a small typo crept into my above post and resulted in an error.
I know the president was only cleared of rape before our courts and that he wasn’t cleared of corruption. I know the charges were dropped before he went to court.
Calm down. Go back to your criminal activities.
November 13th, 2009 at 9:00 am
I have absorbed the content of all the posters on here. All have valid pijts in justifying the reasoning except for Justin Hartman, who appears to be in love with smelly bottoms and kisses them dearly whenever in the company of someobody with a smelly bottom.
Can we not rest with the fact that there is good and bad in South Africa. I myself live in Australia today having left 10 years ago already. We briefly returned to SA in 2008, container the lot, but found life unbearable in the current climate South Africa has to offer to its beloved tax payers. We were not robbed once, but 6 times in the brief 7 month stint we had over there. One robbery rook place where my 3 yeard old son was pushed about and slapped and I thought these bastards were actually out to kill him. This happened in a little laid back town called Fochville while visiting friends. I would also like to mention that the perpetrators of all 6 robberies were black. We were fortunate that only one of the robberies were violent – the one Fochville. The other 5 were breakins at my house in Krugersdorp. And go ahead, ask me how I know the perpetrators were black? Also what is wrong with mentioning the colour of the perpetrators. The media quickly identifies a whitey for the evil being he is when he has committed an offence, especially when a black person is envolved.
On a lighter note, SA just remains a wonderful country. It is just a pity the majority of its citizens make it an unpleasant state to live in. Being a South African is not a nationality, it is a damn privilege. Not only a privilege but a darn good feeling too. It is such a phenomenal feeling, you can not describe it to anybody, nor would somebody who is not a South African understand. And that feeling is a passion that South Africans share subconsiously every day without knowing it. You feel it around the braais we have over the world, Dubai, Perth, London, Atlanta the list is endless. That is also the feeling that kills you everyday when you are an expat like me. You long for everything back home, you just want that feeling but in a reality type show context. The only way to get that feeling is to actually be there. We have given it a second chance and it did not work out. And sorry to say, that fait of the minority also lies in going to the greener pastures of what first world countries have to offer.
Nic is not right in what he states on here, Bert is not wrong with what he puts on http://www.zasucks.com. Nic is not wrong for being positive about SA, I adore people with hope and courage and wish I had more of that. But I have sadly given that up for a better life elsewhere. Nic and Bert are purely some bright individuals with the ability to create a base of followers, as all South Africans are leaderless at this stage (even though there is something called a govenment there right now). So the leaderless stick to individuals who talk their talk and walk their walk.
What is a pity is that Bert needs to be sidelined for publishing the other perspective. He published the reality which state the facts that made us leave SA for a second time, the facts that made me decide not to ever go back there again, not even to catch a connection flight to Brazil for ethat matter. I won’t ever go back, ever ever, despite my love for the place. In my humble little opinion: Any South African with the least bit of common sense who has not even considered the thought of leaving SA, tjomma, there is something seriously wrong with you.
We have read all the basics in the books of science and stock markets, economics, politics etc. The one thing that stands out in all of these when reading it but not seeing it is – history always repeats itself in one form or another. Africa has dawned over South Africa, it is another moment of history in the process of repeating itself. It is the history of the post colonial era, which is not even 50 years behind us yet.
You may remain positive and hope and stay in SA, you also have the right to leave, though not the right to enter any other country without a big battle for a visa and so forth.
I hope I am wrong about the little history theory above, but for my own safety and that of my family I choose to side with Robert Mugabe – Africa is for the africans. I am not african!
November 13th, 2009 at 10:46 am
UG …I nearly scoffed my coffee all over my computer screen when you tried to imply that you did not moderate your site. You strongly moderate your site. That aside I once again ask you the following.
You are a man on a mission. You work single mindedly towards a goal. You are therefore highly motivated and indeed hopeful you will once day achieve it. The problem is this goal of yours is to encourage everyone to give up on this country.
You’re so sdeduced by this notion I propose bad enws of violence in South Africa is greeted by you with glee while good news is greeted by despair and anger. That’s a pretty far gone and twisted way to live my friend not to mention psychologically very unhealthy. When you’re so much invested and in love with a dream of destruction and hatred it will eat at you.
Now you’re a smart guy in some aspects but this neurosis and paranioa of yours have gone too far. Doubtlessly you’ve experienced some trauma to push you beyond the realms of the rational. Isn’t time to spot spitting the dummy out at the world and start to heal ? I don’t hold much hope for the other ooms and muppets at zasucks (the communism conspiracy stuff etc you guys waddle on about reeks of a bunch of bossies oom’s who weren’t quite sharp enough to bounce off the propoganda)but there might be hope for you yet.
The problem with your world view UG is that anecdotal evidence spits in the face of it every day in South Africa. Every single newly educated black child that greets me with a polite “hello sir”, every hard working black associate , every bunch of youngsters integrating easily and naturally…it all spits in the face of your world view that black people are inherintly evil. No smart man has any business alignign with such cartesian dualistic rubbish.
The last question I would love to ask you one day….out of ear shot and off the record over a beer is ” Come on man…you don’t REALLY believe the crap you put on your site do you ? ” I simply can’t believe you’re quite that crazy.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:05 am
If I use your argument of trying to quantify death, suffering and complete anarchy under various regimes, then the NSA flag bears infinitely more culpability than the OSA flag. I’m not saying the Nats were a bunch of benevolent angels – far from it, I saw first hand their heavy-handedness.
——————–
Utter rubbish. The difference ? It was to the white governments benefit to undereport violence in townships etc under apartheid. Now out of power you suddenly pretend it’s a new phenomena ? Intellectually dishonest and total manipulation of the truth. Also ignores how 50 000 black South Africa enter the middle classes each month and millions of people now have access to basic things like electricty and water, education , medical treatment and social grants. Not the mention the record growth etc we’ve experienced. Any argument pretending the quality of life has degraded in South Africa is for lack of a better word….wet. Get over it UG and the offer still stands for that free lift to the airport. If you’re not going to be be part of the future of the country well…get the hell out of the way.
November 13th, 2009 at 11:07 am
What is a pity is that Bert needs to be sidelined for publishing the other perspective. He published the reality which state the facts that made us leave SA for a second time, the facts that made me decide not to ever go back there again, not even to catch a connection flight to Brazil for ethat matter. I won’t ever go back, ever ever, despite my love for the place. In my humble little opinion: Any South African with the least bit of common sense who has not even considered the thought of leaving SA, tjomma, there is something seriously wrong with you.
————-
Nobody I know in my current circle of friends and associates wants to leave or has even considered it. Must be a joburg thing.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
@ Geemac:
1) You don’t answer the question, again I ask you, why the need for a pseudonym?
2) OJ Simpson was also acquitted for his murders on Nicole & co. Are you *really* that naive to think he was innocent?
3) “Not dignify my post”. Pathetic. You are an intellectual coward and moral slob. Instead of deconstructing my points, you choose the easy route and run away tail between the legs, after having soiled yourself. Run fat boy, run! The Uhuru Guru is coming, better hot foot it!
November 13th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
“Nobody I know in my current circle of friends and associates wants to leave or has even considered it. Must be a joburg thing”
No rooster – nothing to do with Joeys – you see its a simple logic thing – which you seem to be proudly devoid of.
Maybe your so called “friends” don’t mention it ’cause they know you’ll spin off on your demented, ranting tangent, extolling all the virtues of your “promised land” while conspicuously ignoring the obvious downsides.
I for one would rather watch paint dry than go through that!
And stop trying to be “holier than thou” when it comes to comment moderation. I’ve put quite a few comments on that rats-ass site of yours that you have seen fit not to publish – maybe due to their “negativity”
If you were so open why do you have comment moderation on? And don’t tell me its because of spam – that’s a crock – its because you only want to publish what you see in your view as “right”
Take comment moderation off, as they do on this site, then we can compare apples to apples.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
@ Gabriel Malherbe:
I am sorry for the ordeal you suffered in this country. You’ve chosen the only rational and logical outcome, which is to ensure a real future for yourself and your children. You have my respect and admiration, emigrating is not for sissies. Well done and I wish you all the best.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
@ Rooster:
I assume this is the same Rooster from KILL A WHITEY blog? The Rooster – Berchenko’s wingman who flooded and tried to hijack SA Sucks comments pages? Give it a rest Keith – I approved far more of your anti-White vitriol than I rejected. How many of my comments did you reject? Quite a lot, mate.
As for your question over the beer: do you think we / I would have expended so much effort, time and expense in SA Sucks if we didn’t believe in our cause?
November 13th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
@ Rooster
Free lift to the airport? Hey boet, need I remind you that you PROMISED to buy me a ticket out the country? Now you’re backtracking a tad?
You said “Nobody I know in my current circle of friends and associates wants to leave or has even considered it. Must be a joburg thing.”
Not quite, old chap. I recall when criminals hijacked, stripped naked and cold-bloodedly executed those gay boys in CT not too long ago, there was much hue & cry in especially the CT community.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
Bert – We could do this back and forth forever. Maybe we should just get together and have a beer sometime?
Anyways. Don’t accuse me of being a liar. You started your blog in 2006, I left comments in 2006 that have never been published. Maybe one, two, ten who cares about the number? I know certifiably that I am not the only person who has been moderated on your site. But let’s leave that one alone.
Regarding your point about who you or I have as readers. That is a fair point. I have a retort, but it’ll just end us in another flat spin. So I’ll grant you this; if one of my readers does something wrong, it would be stupid to blame me. So I cannot do that to you. Fair point. I do however believe that there is a mob-mentality that is bred on your website. There is a tolerance that exists that is uncomfortable and there is a hateful tinge to much that is said and done.
I don’t respect much of what has been said or done on your website over the years. I do respect your opinion and that your experiences have lead you to where you are, but it doesn’t mean that you are right or I am wrong. It also doesn’t mean that I agree with the manner in which you write. I think there is a way and a means to put across a point that is more effective than racist commentary that insights people.
One last word: Mugabe did not single-handedly ruin anything, nor did Hitler, nor will Malema. There were many, many people who tolerated what they did. I do not (let me say that again), I do not stand for racism for or against any race. I do not stand for crime, I do not tolerate illegal acts. If you think that I do then you mistake me. I am merely trying to counterbalance things and show people like you that there are people in South Africa who are trying to do good. It is NOT only about the crime and there are not only bad things here.
Bert – thanks for the debate, but this will be my last comment on this thread.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
wow.im suprised!truly surprised.how can this BertO be so incredibly selective(read ignorant) with his “Facts”?Fact: i have so many family members who still carry physical scars from torture,because they were black.they were literally walking along,minding their own business in their own townships,and white cops,bored, decide to arrest and torture them.my aunt, was raped,burnt with cigarettes, and beaten so badly to the point that she can’t stand up fully straight,and has a permanenet bag because she has no control over her bladder,can’t have children,and is blind in one eye,by WHITE cops,because she was BLACK AND DARED BE WALKING!(she has never set foot outside her house since the day.cant bring herself to do it.they had 2 f**ken sedate her to move her,after my parents bought her a new home)is so psychologically f’ked up she literally shakes and trembles if she sees a whiteperson)picked up in her own TOWNSHIP middle of the day,for the sport of it. My second cousin, still can’t lie on his back for too long, from being “Questioned” about an activist he happened to be in the same store with.My uncle, still has the scars all over his body, from white officers whipping him first @ walmer police station,because he wasnt carryin his dompas.then cut him with beer bottles,after they decided to take him 2 some guy’s plot to have a braai and drink-my own father has medical license revoked because he “might” be hiding activists,IN A BUILDING THAT HAD NO DOORS/WINDOWS and was made up of literally just four walls and half a roof.personally,i remember being 5 yrs old, and being locked in a room with my older brother(8) whilst they “questioned” my grandmother about the wherabouts of my father(who was in the back of their policevan @ the freakin time.)then 4 good measure,they tear-gassed the house on leaving.remember neighbours breakin the doors down to get us out of the room.(admittedly,from then on i remember tear gas quite often,bcos we would participate in toyi-toyi’s in the townships-we didn’t really know why,but our older relatives were there,so u get “caught up”)wen i was born,my grandfather on my moms side had already passed-picked up by police officers on his way home one day,never 2 be seen again.only reason we know that,is cos the white dude for whom he worked,tried to help him,and got himself beaten pretty badly-he drove that same day into the township,with his wounds,to tell my grandma,crying the whole way in,and out,bcos he culdnt do squat.so berto,none of these were ever acknowledged by the government,and these only apply to my personal life.how many others dont we know about.so dont quote me numbers and history written by the freakin perpetrators,u ignoranus.and the majority of africans who came in2 this country during apartheid,did so not because they beleived it was a haven here-they did so,because they were escaping what they had deemed a worse hell-and i can tell you this not because i read it in some bs book-but because I SPEAK TO THEM!!!i know of so many of them,who talked about having made a mistake coming here,that they had stood a better chance in their own countries,and what they had heard about sa,was FAR from the true realities.BertO,if u want to say it can’t be denied we’re following the path of zimbabwe,i put 2 u,we were already there,except the white apartheid government had done,and was doing what bob is doing now.i have white friends still going 2 zimbabwe,so does this make it a better place than sa?and u write:”Sure there was hate – perfectly understandable and justifiable hate for the hateful, murderous savages who committed the most heinous crimes against innocent White men women and children.” so by ur logic, i am justified in hating whites because of what I and my family went through,at the hands of murderous,savages who committed the most heinous crimes against innocent Black men,women and children.
“Who murdered to take what they wanted? Are you out of your mind to spew such ludicrous, slanderous fiction?” are you serious?my cousins family got a call,from the dept. of land reform beginning of this year,and told they had discovered some few hundred hectares of land,in the kirkwood area of the Eastern Cape,belonged to his family-turns out,my great grand uncle was a horse breeder-killed(for resisting),and his family forcibly removed from this land.how do they know?upon looking for a proof of sale/transfer of ownership etc.none could be found,that could be found to be legitimate anyway,and upon questioning the inhabitants/farm labourers and their parents,and grandparents,turns out he was quite well known in the area amongst them-they could have claimed the land as theirs, or belonging to one of their elder relatives,bt they all were common on one point-yes,some time ago,there was a black family that lived on that land,and then they just didnt after the white family arrived.he used 2 have horses,and then he didn’t.he was from the tribe of ukhwalo,but no ever knew what became of them. So before you tell selective truths (which amounts to blatant lying, as you’re omitting to suit your purposes),have the damned balls to admit it.and yes,i have without a doubt more reason than you,to hate,but I can’t and won’t for the simple sake of my grandma’s memory,who refused 2 let us hate.despite all the hardships,and sheer unbelieveable cr@p she went through,she refused 2 let us hate.and because of that,because our parents did try to shield us from the worst of it,when they could; because some of my best mates are white/indian/coloured etc. i will not hate everyone-but hell,i can say,you,and ur supporters, i have no issue wishing the worst the world has to offer on you;because you are as inhuman as the very criminals you seek to pass off as the “reason” for your inherent bigotry.and here’s a favourite quote of mine also from Friedrich Nietzsche “Better know nothing than half-know many things.”
November 13th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
@ tubby
Dude – calm down and raid the fridge or something.
You’re gonna give yourself a heart attack!
November 13th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
@BertO
Let me admit that you, in your commentary here, do offer food for thought. This, to me, is in stark contrast to the way it which you presented your case on zasucks. Be that as it may.
Patterns in history makes for very interesting study, and the interpretation thereof, always in hindsight, is determined by the interpreter’s world-view.
Based on the nationalist-fueled extremism of the 20th century, I (obviously) see the concept, as asserted by you, as the measles of the human race. Early in its development, nationalism moved in two very different directions: one liberal and progressive, the other authoritarian and backward-looking. The principles on which a nation like the USA, for example, are build was essentially liberal and forward-looking, based on reason and universal in outlook. The founding fathers saw themselves blazing a trail for mankind as a whole in its march towards greater liberty and equality. We see a similar pattern, or rather inspiration, in the nationalism of the French revolution, which expressed a universal aspiration in the famous slogan “Liberty, Equality, Fraternity.” The formation of these nations was an act of self-determination willingly undertaken by its members. Partly as a reaction to the excesses of the French and the depredations of Napoleon, the German nationalism that evolved took on a very different complexion. Romantic and inward-looking, it favored instinct over reason, tradition over progress, authority over freedom. Rejecting universalism and the idea of the brotherhood of nations, this version of nationalism was at once self-absorbed and exclusive, fabricating a national history that emphasized difference and superiority. It was this conception of the nation and the kind of nationalism it that were exploited by the fascists of the previous century. Can you recognize the pattern in relation to our own history? Nationalism is a silly cock crowing on his own dunghill, to paraphrase Richard Aldington.
Your points on multiculturalism is fascinating. I have asked Piet previously the question on how sees South Africa: melting pot, or salad bowl? The answer is again dependent on one’s worldview. I do believe the motto on the Seam of the United States “E pluribus umum – Out of many comes one”, but do harbor concerns, not dissimilar to yours. I guess this is arguably best explained a reference to the Tebbit Test. In an interview Norman Tebbit, British Conservative, posed a question that has caused reverberations ever since. Simple, yet abound with inherent complexity:
“A large portion of Britian’s Asian population fail to pass the cricket test. Which side do they cheer for? It is an interesting test. Are you still harking back to where you came from or where you are?”
The test is obviously flawed: by its reckoning the great majority of Scots, for example, would not qualify as British. Unsurprisingly, Tebbit’s comments struck a chord with many in the white population. It is easy to dismiss the fears that the test was tapping into as racist, but the truth is that they are as much alive today as ever. I find no fault for highlighting this fear.
However, you fail to recognise that a wide variety of groups of different ethnic origins can and do live together in peace and as functional communities while retaining many other their native ways and customs (including sporting allegiances, although my Province family refuse to watch rugby with me, as a Blue Bull supporter). I will give you this point: equally clearly there has to be SOME common ground. With a plurality of groups comes a plurality of loyalties, and such loyalties are always divided to some degree. What happens when such allegiances pull in different directions? At what point does such division become incompatible with common citizenship? What amount of common culture, identity and history is sufficient to provide the glue that holds a multicultural society together? Such questions are becoming increasingly urgent, specifically for South Africa, but also in the wake of the Islamist attacks on the USA and Europe – evidence of radicalization. Sadly, at a time when tolerance and restraint are needed more than ever, people are beginning to ask questions a great deal more sinister than Tebbit.
These questions you could have asked without the racist innuendo.
November 13th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
Dear Nic Haralambous,
I have read through this discussion, and I have a question for you.
Gabriel Malherbe writes:
“We briefly returned to SA in 2008, container the lot, but found life unbearable in the current climate South Africa has to offer to its beloved tax payers. We were not robbed once, but 6 times in the brief 7 month stint we had over there. One robbery rook place where my 3 yeard old son was pushed about and slapped and I thought these bastards were actually out to kill him. This happened in a little laid back town called Fochville while visiting friends. I would also like to mention that the perpetrators of all 6 robberies were black. ”
If you endeavor to hide or play down, that white people who reside in (or visit) South Africa today run a great/er risk of being the victims of crime – because you are “hopeful” that some day in the future, that will no longer be the case – what then, is YOUR responsibility when a white person is subjected to violence, perhaps even killed (partly because you have lulled him/her into a false sense of security)?
November 13th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Nic,
Under the circumstances you did enormously well on 702. Well done for flying the flag, as they’ve said.
Despite the fact that I agree with you wholeheartedly on all the issues raised — and Bert, someone can and hopefully will write a masters dissertation on how wrong you — an interesting point emerges from the debate.
SARocks is in many ways a meaningful and incredibly valuable contribution to post-apartheid discussions. However, in its relentlessly constructive energy, it just seems unable to deal with the horrific trauma that arises from violence. As vile as I find the purveyors and readers of right-wing racism and hate-speech, I can’t shrug off the realisation that many of them are casualties of an incredibly traumatic country. The worst possible way to deal with this trauma is the filth (and yes, flagrant misuse of crime statistics) on ZASucks… but neither is SA Rocks a realistic solution. It’s not that you fail to criticise (far from it) — perhaps you’re just too damned chipper.
Your right-wing critics make an unfortunately astute point that nobody walks away from horrifically violent crime with an “SA Rocks” mentality. So how does one deal with that traumatised psyche?
November 13th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
BertO appears to be homophobic too… didn’t see that one coming.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:26 pm
@ Rooster:
I assume this is the same Rooster from KILL A WHITEY blog? The Rooster – Berchenko’s wingman who flooded and tried to hijack SA Sucks comments pages? Give it a rest Keith – I approved far more of your anti-White vitriol than I rejected. How many of my comments did you reject? Quite a lot, mate.
As for your question over the beer: do you think we / I would have expended so much effort, time and expense in SA Sucks if we didn’t believe in our cause?
——————–
Who are you trying to convince ? Certainly not me because you and I both know 100% clear in my hearts I never tried to flood your comments. In fact around 0.1% of my comments got posted even before I even wrote my website. You strickly moderate that website and you know it and I’ve extremely tolerant in allowing your minions to post on mine. After all if you right winged lunatics didn’t come provide tangible examples that you exist no one would understand what I was on about. So keep it coming.
November 13th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
And stop trying to be “holier than thou” when it comes to comment moderation. I’ve put quite a few comments on that rats-ass site of yours that you have seen fit not to publish – maybe due to their “negativity”
If you were so open why do you have comment moderation on? And don’t tell me its because of spam – that’s a crock – its because you only want to publish what you see in your view as “right”
Take comment moderation off, as they do on this site, then we can compare apples to apples.
—————–
I’m a very busy man and if you think your comment got moderated it was because you posted so much unsubstantuated bollocks that I was too busy or not in the mood to debunk. I have comment moderation on because zasucks member tried their best to comment spam me. I asked again and again for them to stop as I did not want any moderation but they forced my hand. Anyway..let’s not make this about me. My agenda is not to present South Africa is a good or bad light…it’s to present the situation of living here in a rational sense. Nobody should fear being murdered living in South Africa rationally (especially white people who stand a far less chance relatively to others of being murdered) . Consider you’re far more likely to die of the fatty diet in you lived in america , or commit suicide if you lived in the UK. Or hundreds of times more likely to die in a car crash or cancer.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:11 am
Nic, you are an intellectual flyweight compared to old Uhuru Guru.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Uhuru Guru – why don’t you share with everyone how you engaged in aggravated menacing over email? That, and not some trumped up charge as your brother Doodler claimed, was probably the real reason for your arrest. What you did in the dark will come out in the light. Now zasucks is in the ash-heaps of cyber history where it belongs.
November 15th, 2009 at 1:15 am
hey black coffee, Zasucks has resurfaced in a new domain. Seek and ye shall find.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
UG, your blog will be missed by many, me included.
You know I always find it amusing how these blog comment threads always end up as a slanging match over irrelevant details instead of focussing on the core issues. The core issue of the ZASucks blog was to highlight the hidden and underplayed crime that occurs in SA today – issues that are avoided by the mainstream press. Racism, moderation on blogs, etc, etc – these are all fringe issues, and yet they make up 90% of the arguments put up by dim liberals unable to see the wood for the trees. Forget racism. Racism is like calling a kid in the playground fat. How can you morons keep harping on about racism and name-calling when we are talking about people being tortured, raped and murdered? I would far rather be called a stupid whitey than have a knife stuck into my torso 15 times. I would assume that most black people would prefer to be called a k****r than be shot 5 times in the head.
Racism and all this other guff are arbitrary in the face of the incredible violence and death that occurs in SA every minute. So instead of arguing with Bert over stupid petty things, use your brain and try to see the real message and try to help sort out South Africa’s biggest problem! And I’m sorry Nic, creating a site called SA Rocks with all these nice rosy stories does nothing to address the core issue! You have totally missed the point!
November 16th, 2009 at 12:07 am
All you idiotic liberal fools need a serious wake-up. If I could, I would challenge you all to un-armed combat in order to expose you and your ilk as the spineless pathetic excuse for men you all are. Oh the damage I would do….
November 16th, 2009 at 8:57 am
From the exchanges above, its abundantly clear that….
The UHURU GURU ROCKS and SAROCKS SUCKS..!!!
But hey, Nico – buy UG a beer and if you can persuade him to post regularly here I might take that back. What is for sure is that your hit-rate will go stratospheric and you can make more dosh from all those ads you run. You know it makes sense….
(Nick – I posted this on the wrong thread just now – I meant it to go here of course)
November 16th, 2009 at 9:35 am
Nic, I reckon your intro serves as a beautiful summary of the complete intellectual bankruptcy of the mindlessly politically correct.
Don’t you see how pathetic it is that your biggest problem with the debate had been the absence of ad hominem attacks? And then you proudly boast you managed to get one in.
I bet is makes you feel like a real orator!?
November 16th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Albert Oosthuizen is totally sick and fucked up.
He knows exactly what he can get away with and will pull every trick in the book he can, because he knows his little game has been discovered and he is going down.
When one research psychopaths, one will see that they will play a game for a long time, but the moment someone sees through them and exposes them, then they turn extremely nasty and vindictive when no one falls for their “playing the victim†shit. This is the stage Bert finds himself in at the moment. Once he gets through this he will move on and find some other victims.
One thing that all psychiatrists are agreeing on is that there is no cure for psychopathy. The Psycho will carry on doing what he does until the day he dies. Every time he is exposed he learns and become cleverer so that he is not so easily exposed the next time. In his wake he leaves behind a string of victims. The only cure is a bullet to the brain.
Can you imagine how his wife and daughters have been suffering under him for so many years?
They will probably be relieved if he fucks off or goes to prison. The man is a total Nut-job. Bet you he hits his wife and children. Maybe one should ask her and the children how Bert behaves at home, especially after a few drinks.
He is digging his own grave deeper and deeper with more and more fraud, and identity theft. He got away with his crap for too long. Now his techniques have been exposed and everyone knows of him. The truth has a funny way of coming out sometime.
The police do not give a fuck about his racist rants on his stupid blog. They are interested in his identity fraud and his tax stance. They are interested in his illegal firearms and the history of his four luxury cars. That little cunt probably hasn´t paid tax for years and probably defrauded people out of money.
Bert is just a psychopathic common criminal. Worse than the “Kaffirs” he accuses of crimes. I hope that justice will catch up with him in the end.
He is further a divider and splitter of Afrikaners/Boers.
He is a shit stirrer and troublemaker.
I hope the Beeld and other newspapers take some pics of him so we can see him for real.
One of his Pseudonyms was “Lone Wolf”. It should rather be “Lone Jackal”, because that is what he is.
BTW it won´t be the first time that an anti-crime blog like WSAS was set up by a common gay criminal. Just remember of JD Uys!
Let us watch the coming end of this Bert Oosthuizen soap opera now… like we watched the end of the Juan D Uys/CESA soap opera some time ago too.
Or was it not Bert who started his blog with the “scandal story” of Uys? Hahaha… two true drama queens fought against each other that time.
November 16th, 2009 at 11:51 am
More Ad Hominem drivel. And the so-called “Watcher” doesn’t even have the balls to use his/her own name.
The latest spineless twit takes it to another level with accusations ranging from wife beating to tax fraud wrt to someone it knows absolutely nothing about?!?! But attempting to count even one fact? Nothing, nada, niks…
Can’t you guys even TRY to come up with something – anything – substantial???
November 16th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Are you a millionaire, then, @Jaco Strauss?
So, how do you deal with the crime issue, being a libertarian and all?
November 16th, 2009 at 3:48 pm
@Ricky
What is your definition of a millionaire Ricky? Net worth of R1m? I don’t see the relevance re libertarianism and/or crime. Being libertarian should not be confused with spineless pinko liberalism.
As a libertarian I believe you should be free to do as you please as long as you don’t infringe upon the equal freedoms of others. When you do, the penalty should fit the crime. My support for the death penalty for example could be summarised as follows:
“Personally I think the death penalty is a form of barbaric and uncivilized revenge, but that is not the only reason why I support it…”
What do I do wrt crime? What I can. Dogs, armed response, personal fire arm, 8 ft walls, etc.
November 17th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Being a millionaire you can afford the anti-crime measures. Objectivism in the Ann Rand and Peikoff sense of the Darwinian survival of the fittest will never have longevity in Africa. You cannot compare America, whose liberals were based on the things Emil wrote above, which includes free market policies, with the neo-liberal socialistic form of capitalism in South Africa. Or perhaps you can, for it is truly survival of the fittest.
Definitely not along racial lines, as the despicable approach of sazucks did. Highlight crime, but refrain from stereotypical nonsense. How does Obama’s picture with the missing teeth provide any substance to the crime conspiracy against white people in SA?
November 17th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
People, wake up. Bert fuels a website where some real far right say how they feel. The facts are the facts. People, you owe it to your children and future seed to emigrate whichever way you can.
I love South Africa but I will never feel comfortable having a white child in SA…can you blame me?
It’s not worth it if you are honest with yourself. And if you think you can make a difference, family comes first I am afraid. When you put that ring on your finger, you take responsibility for your family. Think about it.
Love to all…
Koos
November 19th, 2009 at 12:04 am
Jaco,
So, from an eco-libertarian; I want to know. YOu say:
“Personally I think the death penalty is a form of barbaric and uncivilized revenge, but that is not the only reason why I support it…”
Bert Oosthuizen accused Fred Rundle, of “fabricating such
outrageous lies and needlessly handed our enemies the means to
destroy our credibility,” because Rundle stated that Rundle had written an article about Gandhi being a racist; when it was originally written by Kemp.
So for that error: Rundle was accused of ‘fabricating outrageous lies, and destroying the rights credibility.’
Now, as a honest libertarian, what do you think Bert would have accused Rundle of, if Rundle had gone and published a blog post, titled Your Life is In Danger, where he discussed legal professionals opinions about racially motivated crime in South Africa, and appended thirteen photographs of alleged ‘South African crime scene victims’ allegedly provided to him by a South African policeman, from SA Police Files.
Now imagine Rundle had been approached about these photographs, for confirmation, which he did confirm, for such photographs to be submitted to the International Criminal Court: Office of the Prosecutor: Investigations and Information.
Now imagine Bert/Uhuru Guru, had found out that four of those ‘confirmed SA crime scene photographs’ Rundle had said were ‘SA crime scene photos’ were definately not, as per Rundle’s legal representation. And two (maybe three) have distinct origins in gore pornography (i.e. individuals whose porn is not playboy, but corpses and horrific crime scenes).
Imagine Rundle did something like that; what do you think Bert Oosthuizen would have been accusing Rundle of; and what would Oosthuizen be demanding be Rundle’s punishment?
So tell me what you think Bert would be demanding as a sentence for Rundle.
Then, swop Rundle and Oosthuizen in aforementioned roles; and answer whether Oosthuizen should be held to the same punishment, — when caught in doing aforementioned actions, as described — as he would have demanded, if the roles were reversed?
Note: Both Oosthuizen’s have been given the opportunity to take repsonsibility for their aforementioned actions, and issue a full and unequivocal apology and retraction, and explanation, to their readers, and fellow South African ‘crime concerned’ bloggers. They refused.
Substantiations can be found at: I Luv SA: Black Swans, Misrepresentations and the Truth; and White Refugees: [Update 09-11-07] Notice of (i) Correction of Error/s & (ii) Retraction of Enclosure; re: Encl.Your Life is In Danger (www.zasucks.com/?p=6151)
November 19th, 2009 at 12:12 am
Link Correction: White Refugees: [Update 09-11-07] Notice of (i) Correction of Error/s & (ii) Retraction of Enclosure; re: Encl.Your Life is In Danger (www.zasucks.com/?p=6151)
November 19th, 2009 at 12:39 am
@Ricky
I don’t frequent zasucks, or, for that matter, this site. I know the arguments, but I’m glad they exist (especially zasucks) to educate those who are used to simply rely on “his master’s voice” of the SABC and the rest of the Party Cool drink media.
But I don’t like mindless stereotyping either. I haven’t seen the Obama cartoon, but it sounds silly. Having said that, I do think that you have to be realistic as to who is who in the zoo.
Who for example is behind violent crime? Father Christmas? The Tooth Fairy? Maybe old Mrs Williams down at the chemist??? You cannot solve something if you don’t want to acknowledge its existence. Say you hear a shot, turn around and find someone had just been murdered. There are two potential suspects, but you only have the ability and opportunity to apprehend one of them, the other will escape. What do you do? Flip a coin, or use common sense?
It is basic human nature to learn from past experiences and interactions. If not, you’ll burn yourself on the stove every morning…
So, lets say the one suspect is a 40 year-old Jewish woman and the other a 20 year old Xhosa male? Can you honestly say you are going to flip that coin, or are you going to apply “racial stereotyping” in making the decision? After all, where do you think racial stereotyping comes from?
Another example. If you get a tip-off about a suicide bomber in your shop, are you going to pay special attention to middle eastern folk in their twenties, or are you going to treat everyone the same and rather randomly frisk the Danish students, the young Afrikaners, some old Greeks…
I for one don’t think we can afford the PC bullsh1t anymore and that is what makes blogs like zasucks so important. Someone sure as hell needs to push the envelope and face it, its not going to be eTV, SARocks or Huisgenoot….
November 19th, 2009 at 12:51 am
Hi White Refugee
The story is pretty confusing, but I also believe the punishment should fit the crime. Whether Bert lied about Rundle, or vice versa it sounds more like a case of slander or crimen injuria than a capital offence.
Fact is we still have the death penalty in SA. Fifty South Africans receive it daily. Without judge or jury. If the murderers start swinging in the market place again some of those innocent lives would most definitely be saved.
My views on the death penalty can be seen here: http://www.strauss.za.com/phl/deathpenalty.html.
November 19th, 2009 at 2:07 am
Jaco,
Sorry it is too confusing for you Jaco, to figure out.
Not difficult: your hero published a few photos from goreporn sites, and told his SA Sucks readers, the photos were from SA police files, and were ‘SA crime victims’. When confronted with his fraudulent representation; he refused to issue an honourable and professional retraction and apology.
Not sure what you found so cofusing about that to understand.
Let me know when you value honesty and accurate reporting, as the foundation of whom you consider to be ‘credible’.
Because until you consider honest and accurate reporting, on behalf of any alleged victim; as a value you are willing to hold your hero’s to account for; I won’t be taking your opinions, very serious.
Furthermore: If your concern is so great for saving ‘innocent’ lives; tell me what have you done to addresss the root causes of overpropulation colliding with scarce and depleting resources?
November 19th, 2009 at 11:46 am
“Furthermore: If your concern is so great for saving ‘innocent’ lives; tell me what have you done to addresss the root causes of overpropulation colliding with scarce and depleting resources?”
Indeed. A failing of Objectivism. The Scourge of the Earth. Plunder to enrich. F*** the poor. Eat as much as you can.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Ricky,
Are you referring to the Objectivism of the ‘Haves vs. Have-Nots’ cartoon at 2010 terror plot: ‘SA not ready’ || Islamic Paramilitary Training Camps in South Africa?
November 19th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
LMAO @WWAWR – no, but that is a funny strip. Scary, but funny.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
@White refugee
Things might have been a lot clearer had you the abiliy to be coherent. And of course if you actually had something of value to contribute. What some allegation of fraudulant reporting has to do with the death penalty begs the question whether that is what you actually stand for?! Few jounalists would survive a regime where an absence of honest reporting is a capital offence.
You also seem to be confused about a basic concept such as “hero”. Please define your understanding of the word, or explain the basis of your delusion. I’ve probably been to zasucks twice in my life and not recently at that. As stated, I like the fact that he is out there as a stimulus of the debate – as can be seen in these pages. The insinuation that that qualifies him as a hero of mine is so weak that it probably doesn’t even qualify as an ad hominem attack.
More importantly, whether Bert fraudulently spiced up some crime articles in the past, or not, is neither here nor there. It is not as if we had no crime problem, he generated one, it turned out bogus, we hang him, all live happily ever after.
Proving that Bert actually published pictures of manikins is also not going to bring back our friend who got murdered in his house in front of his wife over Easter. If some picture of a murdered farmer in the end turns out to be Lord Lucan mauled to death by Shagar, it is not going to be enough to disprove the 3000 farm murders that took place over the last two decades.
But I understand. In your one dimensional little world these farmers are apparently only ‘innocent’ in quotes. Victims of “overpopulation colliding with scarce and depleting resources”. The “root cause” of it all. I hope you didn’t actually pay somebody to teach you that crap.
What we have is cronyism, fueled by entitlement, but devoid of responsibility. A ruling elite with no qualms about abusing scarce resources to entrench and maintain their hold of power. SAA, Eskom, Armscor, SABC, SAPS, courts, Transnet, etc etc. is simply devoured.
SA is literally Rocking with this system of Buddy Enrichment through Extortion/Entitlement. Take your pick.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
@Ricky
The modern Green movements have little to do with conservation and all with control. Grab a Copy of Steven Milloy’s Green Hell for some dope on this. http://www.amazon.com/Green-Hell-Environmentalists-Plan-Control/dp/1596985852
I don’t think anyone is out there to f*** the poor. The so-called “poor” seems more than capable to f*** themselves. And not only literally.
And as if they are not already happily f***ing themselves enough, when given the chance they queue for hours to elect people more than willing to oblige in doing some more hard f***ing of them too. Watch them burning down the little infrastructure they have, in protest over the ‘lacking service delivery’ of the same useless representatives they themselves elected in the first place?!
And next time? Are you willing to bet against them re-electing the same useless parasites?
I’m not.
November 20th, 2009 at 2:39 am
NO worries Jaco, considering:
(a) you don’t comprehend my CARET linguistics and cognitive analogies (Civilians Are Rarely Ever Trusted);
(b) you don’t appear interested in the discussion of facts, or theories of principles and honourable values;
(c) are a flat earther (i.e. no such thing as overpopulation, nor fixed or scarce resources, et al; CIA & Pentagon, NSSM 200; US Navy, Tragedy of the Commons, etc.. et al; all ‘wrong’);
(d) appear to be stuck in what the Sufi’s referred to as the consciousness level of belief…:
Paradoxes and ambiguities arise from confusing levels of consciousness. Thus we may find that an answer is ‘correct’ but simultaneously ‘invalid’, like a musical note, correctly played but at the wrong place in the score. All observatgions are reflections of specific levels of consciousness, and are valid only on their own level. Therefore, every means of approaching a subject has its own built-in limitations. A statement may be true at a high level of understanding, but its incomprehensible to the average mind. It is torted by the limitations of the listener.
(e) think I have nothing to contribute to your superior and without any doubt, unequivocally correct beliefs….
I wish you Bon Voyage on your internet journey…
In due time… you will remember the words of Watcher….
Till then…
“I believe in only one thing: liberty; but I do not believe in liberty enough, to want to force it upon anyone” — Fal Parsi Swan
November 23rd, 2009 at 11:07 am
Nic
Uhuru Ghuru alias Bert Oosthuizen lieg vir jou oor wie en wat hy is. Ek sit met die bewyse wat ek met graagte aan jou sal stuur as jy dit wil sien.
Eerstens is die man NIE ‘n regse nie. Hy is ‘n VRYE MESSELAAR in die ROODEPOORT Lodge, waar hy en sy broer Neels al ander manne genooi het om te kom luister in die OPEN EVENING. Daar het hulle gese “We are not a secret organisation, but we DO have secrets”
Dan wil ek jou inlig dat Bert Oosthuizen ‘n rekenaartegnikus is wat webwerwe doen vir ander mense en een vandie mense was ene FRED RUNDLE. Hy het Fred se web gedoen en vir Fred ‘n gmail rekening oopgemaak vir sy epos. Hy het toegang gehad tot al Fred se wagwoorde.
Op ‘n dag besluit Bert dat hy nie meer van Fred hou nie en hy gaan in Fred se gmail in en verander die wagwoorde en begin vanaf Fred se epos vulgere vuil en vieslike pornografie stuur aan almal op Fred se lys. Meeste mense glo toe nou dat dit Fred is wat dit stuur, maar Fred sit en kon nie beheer kry oor sy epos nie.
Asof dit nie genoeg was nie, gaan Bert Oosthuizen en hy doen dieselfde met Fred se Facebook. Hy neem dit oor, verander die wagwoorde en pos vieslike vuil vulgere en rassistiese ding op Fred se Profiel en begin aan Fred se vriende briewe stuur dat hy Fred se rekenings gehack het en beswadder vir Fred.
Fred moes noodgedwonge ‘n saak van crimen injuria oopmaak teen die man en dit is hoekom die Polisie beslag gele het op sy rekenaars.
Uhuru Ghuru, Bert Oosthuizen en sy broer Neelsie oosthuizen (DOODLER OF KNORRIG OP DIE INTERNET) is lief om te vertel hoe wreed hulle pa was, maar dit verskoon hulle nie om te doen wat hulle doen nie.
UHURU GHURU of te wel Bert Oosthuizen is NIKS anders as ‘n kommin krimineel met ‘n agenda nie.
Hy infiltreer regse groepe en vertel dan bogstories. Hy noem homself regs, maar hy was nog nooit lid van enige regse groep nie en nog nooit hulle vergaderings bygewoon nie.
Regses wil hom nien in hulle geledere he nie, want sy tipe gee hulle die beeld wat vals is.
December 6th, 2009 at 12:43 am
BRING TERUG DAAI WEBSITE! sa rock glad nie…
December 7th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Hi all … I have sadly not had the time to read all the posts as they, for the most part display rather interesting thoughts and many sound ideas.
Despite the harassment of UG and his family as a lead thread in the original post I believe that the core opposition to zasucks.com has been missed, and that is that freedom of speech does not give one unlimited licence to promote a very limited and skewed (ok by definition this is subjective) view of South Africa. I had the (mis)fortune of finding the website on 2 occasions and apart from the pictures of dismembered bodies (which were unsubstantiated as to location or time frame) I found the articles and subsequent comments to be suggestive that black people alone were criminal by design and as such South Africa was doomed to destruction as they could do no better. The comments by followers of the site were a no better indication as I read posts headed “Mandela sucks” amongst others.
As with all things in life we have a choice, and perhaps sometimes we choose to express that choice, only so that we may feel that the society that we embrace is emboldened by its expression. I registered a complaint with the South African Human Rights Commission on 30 October about the website.
At the time I thought that nothing would happen, it being a California registered website. Whether or not my humble efforts had any effect I am now quite happy that you can no longer access this damaging website. I will end with one simple thought … truth can be manufactured to present whatever one desires … the will to survive and prosper will always ultimately define a society and its longevity.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Just a thought for my detractors … and there should be a few. I am married to a beautiful South African Indian lady, and yes as you may ask I am a white male aged 41. If you wish to berate me beyond this forum my email address is my surname + @mweb.co.za . I would caution you however that both my wife and I are both capable of defending our love of this country beyond simple bad dialogue.
December 17th, 2009 at 11:08 pm
I see that despite my simple challenge all comments have ended. Perhaps this thread had no real purpose to begin with.
December 17th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
No Reg, you simply arrived a bit late and then thought you deserved some credit for attempting to impose your subjective views on others by bleating to the so-called “Human Rights Commission”.
But the pits – as far as I was concerned – had been your claim to the moral high ground by proclaiming you were white and “married to a beautiful South African Indian lady”. What does that have to with anything? I want to discuss ideas and principles, not provide marriage counselling! Or do you reckon the one whose wife has the darkest pigmentation wins the debate!?
Read my posts, comment on them and I’ll reply. Up to this point you merely come across as a tattle tail who still seems to think mixed marriage are such a romantic novelty that it bestows participants with free debating brownie points…
January 4th, 2010 at 10:49 am
I am living in a small country called the Kingdom Of Bahrain in the middle east.beautifull i must say where we have a 1% crime rate here if any at all.the law here is so strict that no one does dare to brake it.expats like my self we like a chop and a dop over the weekends where we mix with expats from all over the world, mostly arabs as we reside here.the most common question we get from the arabs is where you from ? proudly saying South Africa, with a response going ok but you are white.After explaining to them why we are white and we do have white people in SA they now know a little better.We allways start talking about the crime and how terrible it is there and so forth.we think that the white people are racist towards the black people the you have a nother thing coming the arabs is worse then we are.why i left SA they ask well what can i say its not home any more its not safe its just not what it used to be.afermative action is a load of…….. what about the underprivelidged white people out there who cand afford anything you dont see them going around raping or killing people for a R2 dou they.well think again why we white people leave SA. think if all the white people leave SA you will have a nother zimbabwe in the happening as i think it is allreddy started.
January 8th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
I wonder when Bert Oosthuizen is going to be tried for his alleged (so far) offences. Having a brother for a lawyer helps to get delays and postponements, but the day of reckoning can’t be put off forever.
As regards racist hate sites, they are like the heads of a Hydra, they pop up all over the place. It’s usually the same people trying to make it look as if there are millions of disgruntled whites in South Africa.
January 9th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Soon whites disappear from SA, so there will be more racism. Fools.
January 9th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
(no more)
But in reality : more.
January 18th, 2010 at 9:18 pm
This site was merely posting 1 man’s opinion of what went on in this baboon country. Its freedom of speech and nobody was FORCED to go on it or read anything in it. Do you think that other non-white races are completely un-racial and have no racial problems with them at all? Bullshit imo, whites are pronounced racists as soon as they pronounce anything that is not pro-black. The cANCer that is killing this country keeps using Apartheid as an excuse for their cock-ups and yet its been 16 fucking years. Anyways /rant over.
February 11th, 2010 at 3:07 pm
Well crime and and and is part of South Africa. Yes SA is a great country….or was. Get your heads out of the ground and open your eyes ignorant ppl
March 15th, 2010 at 12:44 pm
Hi Nic,
As a person that has been in 81 cities in 16 countries and have lived abroad I believe the more I travel the more I like South Africa. Anyone that disagrees has either never got off their fat arse and seen the world to compare or has never ventured out of the hotel they had their ‘holiday’ or switched on the news in the country they visited!
SA ROCKS BUD!
March 16th, 2010 at 6:54 pm
Just Plain Pine,
Enjoy your stay. As someone who did get off my fat arse, and spent 14 years travelling around the world with a backpack as a single woman, including china and russia in 93, when 90 of russians and chinese had never ever seen a real live westerner, inlcuding africa, middle east, europe, america and caribbean.. your 81 cities in 16 countries is a bit tupperwear teaparty naive.. but anyway…
Travel Advice? Hope for your sake your Amy Biehl ignorance don’t end up like hers did.
Or perhaps you don’t know… 140 SA Elite Confirm their Deliberate Indifference to Rule-of-Law…
August 4th, 2010 at 6:24 am
would love to know how to access that zasucks blogg again. i’d like to show canada exactly what the new sa is all about. briliant blogg. can anybody help?
August 10th, 2010 at 4:57 pm
Sadly P Brown I wouldn’t give you the address if I had it. Clearly you have an agenda and are too lazy to write your own lies and filth online so you’re looking to pass the buck and brand SA in a certain light to the Canadians who are unfortunate enough to be subjected to your mindless and irrelevant rants over in Canada.
October 14th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
It’s been announced on SA Sucks that Bert Oosthuizen will be speaking at the Springbok Club in London tonight. This is confusing because they have a link to Swinton Circle, which is ultra right wing and apparently no longer affiliated to the original Springbok Club.
http://barthsnotes.wordpress.com/2008/12/19/new-london-swinton-circle-announces-break-from-springbok-club/
Oosthuizen has suggested that the meeting turn out be a mini version of the Munich Beerfest Putsch, aka the Hitlerputsch of 1923.
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