I am not sure what the origin of the below passage is, however it is interesting to consider. This is not the reality for many, many South Africans, I know. And I am also quite sure I am going to be blasted for posting this but I think it’s an interesting way to look at things:
We have spoken on many an occasion of the fact that violent crime in South Africa (or certainly a very high percentage of it), occurs between people who know each other. Rowing spouses, drunken siblings, jilted lovers, angry teenagers, disgruntled staff, unhappy colleagues. Murders between people who know each other account for 82% of all our countries murders. 18% of our nation’s murders happen as a result of hijacking, or broadly speaking, ‘robbery’.
So, here’s the good news. If we live in peace, good-will, charity, fairness, generosity and in a way that resolves conflict speedily and satisfactorily with our staff, family and those we know, we have roughly a 0.007% chance of being murdered in a ‘random’ attack by a stranger.
Let’s put this in context so we can appreciate comparatively how small our chances are of being murdered:
– You are 300 times more likely to die in a car accident
– You are 15000 times more likely to die of smoking related disorders (if you smoke)But get this….you are over twice as likely to commit suicide.
So much rather stop smoking than emigrate – we are safer living here than puffing in Perth – if we live right.
If you do know where this came from, please let me know so I can add in the correct references.
PS: I’m a smoker.
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June 9th, 2009 at 9:55 am
Possible origin?
http://awesomesa.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/a-different-perspective/
Though I don’t know if it’s on the Stop Crime Say Hello site.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Interesting post Nic, a lot of the problems in our country would be sorted with less whinging and more respect for others.
Respect cant be demanded, it has to be given to be got.
So be respectful and nice and life ain’t that dangerous (unless you smoke like we do!)
June 9th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
My website has been writing about how extremely low your chances of being murdered in the country are for ages. As a white South African they are 12 in 100 000. This is three times lower than washington dc for context. As a South African woman they are 11 times lower than this…around 1.1 out of 100 000. And then of the 1.1% murdered 50% are murdered by their spouses. There are millions of examples of the absurdity of those who worry about being murdered. Going on holiday to thailand puts you massively higher at risk of murder than living in S.A for example. More tourist murders in Australia than south africa…and we get more tourists ! Anyway…Just click on my name to check it out. It’s all there …well reaearched…and totally honest withou agenda.
June 10th, 2009 at 11:28 am
These ‘statistics’ will come of great consolation to the hundreds of people each day who are subjected to violent attacks and random criminal acts. Some of the mentioned ‘statistics’ are outright false and inappropriate.
Fact remains that SA has one of the highest murder and rape rates in the world. In some parts, like Jo’burg, Pretoria, Durban and other hotspots your chances to become a victim of violence while walking through these particular cities are 50-50.
If we had the same number of crimes committed in Britain (or any other European country, for that matter), the National Guard would be out in force and a curfew would be imposed.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Fact remains that SA has one of the highest murder and rape rates in the world. In some parts, like Jo’burg, Pretoria, Durban and other hotspots your chances to become a victim of violence while walking through these particular cities are 50-50.
——————-
What drivel ! 50/50 ? Where did you come up with such rubbish. Are you saying the murder rate in these areas are 500 000 / 100 000 ? Even the worst parts of south africa only have murder rates of 50100 000 (on average 38/100 000). So you’re only exageratting your stats by a factor of 1000. Wow…..!!
Or maybe you just don’t understand sats. These stupid people who double the stats every year ? Something that has a 1 in 100 chance of happening does not equal a 1 in 50 next year you idiot. If the south african white murder rate is 12100 000 then it’s 12 per 100 000 A YEAR. If I flip a coin one time the chances of it coming up heads are 50/50. If I flip it a second time the chances of it coming up heads do not increase you fool.
June 10th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
The last comment should have read ” The worste parts have a violent crime rate of 50/100 000.”
The point isn’t that there is NO violent crime. Yes, there is SOME violent crime. Just like any country in the world. And you know what else is the same as the rest of the world ? This ….
You’re chances of being murdered in this country are extremely low. That’s the point. Anyone saying it’s high is lying. End of story. They’re far far faaaaar lower than dying of a car crash , or smoking or any such thing. Would you leave south africa because you had to drive ? Then why the hell would you leave because of something with far less chance of happening to you such as murder ? Ridiculous !
June 11th, 2009 at 8:42 am
elgar – sadly I wont tolerate the sort of rubbish you are posting on my site. Your last comment was moderated. Do me a favour and stop being so abusive.
June 11th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
The 22-page Christian Action Network Murder in South Africa Report by Robert McCafferty is based on original source documents, government archives, the Central Statistics Service, Interpol, the South African Medical Research Council statistics, and many other sources. The Report casts serious doubt on the South African government’s claim that the murder rate has been decreasing.
While police crime statistics show that there were 21 683 murders in the year 2000, the Medical Research Council puts the figure at 32 482.
Interpol claims even higher numbers of murders in South Africa – up to 54 298 in one year. Interpol’s figures are approximately double the numbers of “murders known to the police” in South Africa. According to Interpol, South Africa has the highest recorded per capita murder rate, second only to Colombia.
The UCA Report on Murder in South Africa reveals that according to the official statistics, in the 44 years from 1950 to 1993, there was an average of 7036 murders per year. This covered the turbulent strife of the apartheid years of warfare, conflict, terrorism, riots and repression.
However, in the first eight years (of peace) of the new democratic dispensation, under the ANC, an average of 24 206 murders were committed each year – officially!. However, if the Interpol statistics are accepted, then the murder rate in South Africa during the ANC years has averaged 47 882 per year.
http://www.christianaction.org.za/articles_ca/2003-3-MURDER_IN.htm
I’m sure this will open your honeymoon eyes Rooster!
June 11th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
No , but this will open yours. The official muder figure for South Africa is 18 000 for last year. Three times your supposive interpol figure. How the hell would interpol be in a better position to judge how many murders happen in South Africa a year than the local authorities ? Ridiculous.
And for those conspiracy theorists. For them to be faking the murder rate in South Africa they’d need to have all the hospitals , doctors , insurnance companies , actuaries , police ministers , (many of which are still white), health orginisations, government officials etc would have to be involved and complicit. What neurotic drivel !
It’s 18000 per year and for whatever reason you wish it to be more , I hope you can reflect on. Because it’s sick actively wanting something to be worse than it is. No matter how often you put the word christian in your name I can smell the racist agenda from here.
Interpol my ass !
June 11th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
That should read “tree times less”
By population group it’s around :
90/100 000 for the “coloured “population
40/100 000 for the black population
12/100 000 for the white population
1 in 33 murders happen to white people. 545 per year.
Of the 18 000 murders less than 500 are related to car theft, housebreaking or armed robbery.
June 11th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Disclaimer : I’m not trying to trivualise murder. Ideally there would obviously be none. I’m just trying to put into context your chance of being murdered. Around 2000 to 1 each year. Just don’t pick the number I’m thinkng of between 1 and 2000 once a year for 80 odd times and you’ll be fine.
ps : I was thinking of 1477
June 11th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Apologies if the comments have been a little callous. Statistically speaking you’re likely to live at least 2000 years in South Africa if murder was the only form of death (as an absolute minimum but probably much much longer). Cancer ? 100 .
To those who have known people to have een victims , of course there is no intended mallice on my part. A healthy fear of violence should exist in all people. Sadly in our country it’s often towards the unhealthy end of the spectrum. Free your mind of unecessary worry through rationality : That’s the message.
Let’s get proactive and not reactive !
June 11th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
@Rooster
Why do you waste your time with these silly hippies.
btw. love the site. awesome. nice to have some fresh content in conjunction with my daily dose of SAS and iluvSA.
Big UP 2 ROOOOOOOOSTER!
June 12th, 2009 at 11:34 am
>> Rooster
Your ’statistics’ will come of great consolation to the hundreds of people each day who are subjected to violent attacks and random criminal acts. Some of the mentioned ’statistics’ are outright false and inappropriate.
The fact remains that SA has one of the highest murder and rape rates in the world (2nd in the world, to be precise). In some parts, like Jo’burg, Pretoria, Durban and other hotspots your chances to become a victim of violence while walking through these particular cities are 50-50.
Anyone who claims to be in possession of valid stats for 2008 is a liar. The latest figure available (and computed) is for 2007, which showed officially 24,210 murders (with the suspected true rate close to 30,000). It is safer to live in Iraq than in parts of South Africa.
June 12th, 2009 at 11:39 am
If Britain had the same rate of violent crimes per annum as South Africa, it would be called “civil war.”
Rooster, do us a favour and proof-read before you post. Your language skill border to linguistic terrorism.
June 12th, 2009 at 11:42 am
After proof-reading I re-phrase that:
Do us the favour and proof-read before you post. Your language skills border to linguistic terrorism.
LOL
June 12th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
>> Rooster
Your ’statistics’ will come of great consolation to the hundreds of people each day who are subjected to violent attacks and random criminal acts. Some of the mentioned ’statistics’ are outright false and inappropriate.
The fact remains that SA has one of the highest murder and rape rates in the world (2nd in the world, to be precise). In some parts, like Jo’burg, Pretoria, Durban and other hotspots your chances to become a victim of violence while walking through these particular cities are 50-50.
Anyone who claims to be in possession of valid stats for 2008 is a liar. The latest figure available (and computed) is for 2007, which showed officially 24,210 murders (with the suspected true rate close to 30,000). It is safer to live in Iraq than in parts of South Africa.
————–
Rubbish !
The latest stats are 2008. 18000 murders a year. That’s bad enough for me , but you can’t get it enough. You ahave to claim it’s higher. What’s wrong …can’t get a hard on unless there is sufficient bloodblust ?
Then you go on aout “Suspected true rate” ? Anyone smell that pungent earthy aroma ? Smells a lot like something famliar…oh yeah I know it…yes clear as day….smells just like bullsh!t !
Spare it buddy. You another of these people who want to believe it’s worse than it really is, aren’t you ? That’s just plain sick ! You’re a horrible twisted person to wish the crima rate was more than it is.
June 12th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
If Britain had the same rate of violent crimes per annum as South Africa, it would be called “civil war.”
Rooster, do us a favour and proof-read before you post. Your language skill border to linguistic terrorism.
——————
Oh please. You go live in that horrible hell hole where not even the middle classes can afford any qualit of life if you like. I’ll take my 2500 to one chance and live my happy life here in S.A…with the good lifestyle , un pretentious people , exciting future and challenges and beautiful landscape. But run allong…go tend bars in england so you can have enough money to buy some baked beans.If you decide to Go hang with the filthy football yobos and rude children and horrible weather , then kindly forget about south africa and leave us in peace. You have enough problems of your own.
June 13th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
>> rooster
The primitivity of your arguments and the pitiful display of poor English language skills bordering to illiteracy are best left to stand without replies that would only be wasted on such moronic intellect as yours.
You’re one of those abhorrent specimen of South African that provoke endless ridicule and belittleing to an otherwise great nation. You are damaging South African interests, buffoon.
June 14th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
The primitivity of your arguments and the pitiful display of poor English language skills bordering to illiteracy are best left to stand without replies that would only be wasted on such moronic intellect as yours.
You’re one of those abhorrent specimen of South African that provoke endless ridicule and belittleing to an otherwise great nation. You are damaging South African interests, buffoon.
————–
There’s beating the strawman and then there’s arguing to badly you’re actually beating off the strawman. You just did the later.
If you want to argue with me here’s some advice. Deal with my content not my form. I’ve got better things to do that type carefully and slowly so you’re dim witted brain can keep up.
I maen eevn an iidot sohuld be to raed a wrod tpyed wonrgly.
June 15th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Elgar,
typically you are attacking the person and not the point. that is a text book sign of the inability to hold a credible arguement and also of a suppressed intelect.
Have a nice day.
June 20th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Rooster makes a point, never mind the typographical errors; lets ponder on what he’s saying, and not miss the point; if so many of our murders are between people who have known themselves, then we had better make an attempt to change our lifestyle. I think that’s the greater challenge here in SA.
June 22nd, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Mr Rooster,
Maybe you should go sell your statistics to the families of these:
http://www.boerevryheid.co.za/voorblad/menseregte_skendings_boerevolk.html
people.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Mr Rooster,
Maybe you should go sell your statistics to the families of these:
http://www.boerevryheid.co.za/voorblad/menseregte_skendings_boerevolk.html
people.
————–
Seis Werner. I could find you examples of murdered and grieving families in any country in the world. It’s a tragedy and the perfec murder statistic would be zero and we should strive for that.
You know the most effective tool to fight violence ? Giving people something to lose. And the best way to do that is socio-economically. The best way to stop violence is to improve living conditions and we won’t do that unless we attract foriegn investment and tourism.
South Africa has less tourist murders a year than Australia and we have twice the amount of tourists. So it’s not irresponsible to do this. Tourist money potentially offers massive jobs and income. And the benefit of foriegn investment speaks for itself.
Now everytime someone paints a gory sensationalistic picture of the crime in S.A it’s doing exactly this : Chasing away foriegn investment and tourism and hurting the country.
So I argue there is definately a place for calming everyone down to a dull roar and asking them to think and spea rationally about the counntry.
June 25th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Please give me an example of a country where there was a lot of violence, and where improved socio-economics stopped the violence. I personally think it works the other way round. If you want, i can give you plenty examples of that. Secondly, please give me an example where South Africans sensationalizes crime. It would say there’s a difference to making crime public, and sensationalizing it. I have been a victim of crime in South Africa SEVEN times already. Last one i suffered severe concussion. Tell me what i did wrong? Don’t you think that the ANC government who happily spent +60 billion rands on unwanted unneeded non productive weapons, designed to kill people, could’ve used that money to improve conditions in this country? How about a leader saying to his followers: We will kill for Zuma.
Mr Rooster, it would be very naive to say that violence in this country is because people are poor, and the reason people are poor, is because South Africans sensationalize crime, therefore chasing away foreign investment. I can point out to you, some very wealthy criminals in South Africa, and yet they remain criminal. I know of foreign investors who left South Africa because of crime, not because they read some sensationalistic news report, but because they themselves had been the victims of crime.
The more you try to hush people about the things going on in South Africa the more they’ll shout it out. Of course until their right to speech freedom gets removed. Will you just be silent when mr Crime opens your door, and rapes your wife, kills your children, and smashes in your face?
June 29th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
@ Rooster,
You quoted similar crime “statistics” – broken down by race – on SAS, but when I challenged you for the source of your information you disappeared back into your grubby crevice. Perhaps as this site appears to be more your type of environment (ie, delusional) you are more likely to hang around and quote your sources?
July 30th, 2009 at 11:46 am
Hi Nic
If you still want to know it was written by Justin Foxton of Stop Crime Say Hello. http://www.scsh.co.za
August 12th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Nic,
Where do you get your stats? You seem to have better stats than ZA statistics bereu and CNN!!!!
Please do not deny the fact that ZA and especially J’Burg is the no.1 crime city in the world. Yes, Nick, living in J’burg will get you killed easier and quicker than any other City in the world. And this is not what I am saying, but thousands of news reports all over the world.
What is the % of HIV / AIDS in ZA?
Thank you for being possitive about ZA. But please be realistic and do not live and post things that are not true.
Am amased by your false posts and making people believe that there are no issues in ZA.
take up my deal – give up your EU passport mate. Do something to improve ZA, be part of the solution, do something other than post false stats. C’om.
“we are safer living here than puffing in Perth ” — God. You have no idea do do? Please stop living in denial.
August 13th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Nic,
see this. Maybe this will tell you something about ZA:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy?wasRedirected=true
September 5th, 2009 at 10:34 am
@Rooster,
mate, what are you smoking?
The whole world knows that SA has a murder problem (actully you are rated no 1). Please provide the source of your research as you should be awareded two P.Hd’s as your stats seem to controdict the rest of the word wide community!
Youmake me giggle!
November 13th, 2009 at 1:01 am
Of course the total murder rate and the violent nature of these crimes is appalling. Of course it is stopping investors, educated immigrants and tourists from visiting, working or creating much needed jobs in SA. Of course thios has a negative effect on the economy and to a large extent helps grow the ranks of the impovrished and with that the ranks of the criminals. But his stats firstly are pretty accurate specifically around race groups and therefore he presents a valid argument. However that doesn’t make us a less violent society. There are simply too many crimes being commited in SA against its citizens. But it is also true to say and has been admitted to that the evry people who should be enforcing the law are being found to be part of the problem. We have an ex police chief who has behaved so dispicably that I for one think he should be subjected to a brain scan. He must be mentally retarded or ill. So its a complex issue but there is one very simple statistic that is happening as we speak, Toursist are not flocking in, investment has slowed down, no skills are rushing to our door, education continues to be woefully short of where it should be. All in all nothing will change unless all the factors are addressed together.
December 9th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Hi Ed,
This article is mine – thanks for posting!
Cheers
Justin Foxton – Stop Crime Say Hello
PS – top all – we arent the “murder capital of the world”. I will send a free SCSH bumper sticker to anyone who can correctly identify who is…!?
January 24th, 2010 at 8:38 am
Yep… lets send Nick and Werner for a holiday in Venezuela. They will taste what crime really is and run back to SA. Fact is there are more suicide deaths in Britain than number of whites being killed in SA.
Sorry, but I feel compasion for those who have been affected by crime but it happens everywhere.
I think the only people who are delusional are those who think we living in a war zone when there are so many things in SA to be thankfull for…..
July 19th, 2011 at 2:28 am
Wonderful goods from you, man. I’ve understand your stuff previous to and you’re just extremely fantastic. I actually like what you’ve acquired here, certainly like what you are saying and the way in which you say it. You make it entertaining and you still take care of to keep it wise. I can not wait to read far more from you. This is actually a wonderful site.
July 25th, 2011 at 5:59 pm
Tickle, Interpol’s *murder* rate for SA includes *attempted* murders. No shit it’s twice as high as the SAPS – it’s the same fucking data with attempts added!
Anthony Altbeker of the ISS debunked the flawed MRC study years ago, the MRC have disowned it it’s not even on their site, just a few racist blogs.
Cheers!