Ed’s note: This post is a contribution from Sheena Gates. She was apparently on the verge of leaving our stunning country but chose not to. Here are her reasons why:
I was leaving for Australia. I had my bags packed, my tickets ready and my family there waiting for me. Then one morning I woke up and thought ‘what the hell am I doing?’. I love Africa. I love my country and its people. There are things in this place that only we could ever understand, such as:
The Vern. Vernon Koekemoer. A phenomenon only available to understanding by Saffers. Shopping for birthdays at the robots. Anything from undies to umbrellas or coat hangers are available at a street vendor near you! Places called ‘Moedersfontein’ and ‘Jakobsdaan’. What beauties. Men wear platform shoes down in Bloem and have shirts shinier than any other girl I know. We are the one nation where Mullet hairdo’s are accepted as the norm, and having buck-teeth can like to be okay.
Our people have learned the art of over-coming. Mug us at the beach? its okay, next time we go back we won’t carry anything with us. Rape us in the home? Its okay, because every single girl I know has a can of Mase and/or a baseball bat nearby the bed. Presidents to be sing Umshiniwam, and its okay – because we make fun of it and post pictures all over facebook. We’ve learned the art of rising above, and keeping our sense of humour.
Our nation may be young, stubborn and maybe even a little bit slower than the rest, but you know what? We’re stronger. We’re funnier. We’re going places and we stick together. Our country is more beautiful than most, and our people the most welcoming and hospitable. Aside from the minority of criminals, we have more spirit and oomph than any other.
I love South Africa, and I’m so excited to start over in a new part of it. Here’s to being a Saffa!
*Disclaimer – this post is a contribution from a contributor and might not entirely represent the views of SA Rocks.
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Popularity: 11% [?]
April 22nd, 2008 at 8:48 am
Yes! SA rocks beyond compare!
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:03 am
Absolutely!
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:38 am
*sigh*
It’s a real pity when people confuse legitimate reasons for leaving South Africa with delusions of resilience. No, Sheena, the things you list as “okay”, are not okay. The fact that we bounce back from them in no way promotes an argument for staying and putting up with the crap.
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:14 am
Sheena, sorry this is all a bit flimsy. Again reality is ignored. Sure, we all want to stay, but it is pity there are still people that downplay (as your article does) serious issues such as rape and crime. Ever thought that most people are not actually able to protect themselves. LostMojo is correct. What is okay? Is okay the fact that we have to protect ourselves because the government refuses to? Most of us want to stay, but reality is just getting stronger and stronger each day.
April 22nd, 2008 at 11:50 am
Hi
I was away for 10 years with a really great job but made the decision to return and give SA a good go. I’ve been back for 2 years and although most of the people are warm and friendly and the country is stunning, the fact is the country is being run into the ground at a rapid rate. I have never encountered such incompetence due to this BEE nonsense, a political ideal that brings down the whole infrastructure of the country. Very responsible and technical positions are being handed to imbeciles. Education standards have slipped horribly. The police force consist of mostly fat, lazy, soft ingrates. The water supply is becoming polluted due to incompetence. I read a report by a water expert in charge of 38 water treatment plants that said 95% of the staff were unsuitable for their positions. She couldn’t do much about it so she left to join a private firm (another great loss). A white lady wanted a loan from the bank to buy my business…she wa told she had to have a black partner who should own 51% of it. A young ‘white’ girl gets straight A’s in matric but can’t become a vet because there were no places. A ‘black’ girl in her class who passed with Cs managed to qualify. That ‘black’ girl feels really horrible. So, doing business in this country is not pleasant, education is a joke, we have gross incompetence in all government departments and we have a nation of happy, positive people who would rather be happy and positive than get off thier arses, band together and sort this mess out. Good luck
April 22nd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Nice! Love it in SA!
April 22nd, 2008 at 1:50 pm
@Matthew – thank you for your sweeping generalisation. I think you are fooled if you think that there are only people sitting one their arses doing nothing, as you so poetically put it!
There are people trying to make changes and I applaud you for wanting to come back and make a go of it. But you have successfully mentioned every general problem that we all know exist. And I think that you are right, we need to get off our arses and do something. I’ll ask again, like I have a million times before on this blog, what are you doing to help things?
April 22nd, 2008 at 2:46 pm
In reply to all of the above, i am a South African sitting in the UK now i have been here for over a year and i dont really miss SA much i only miss my friends and family who are unfortunatly stuck there. i have to agree with Matthew Wells he sums it up, all the reasons he listed is why i took my family and left.
I still had to deal with the good old Home affairs today to get a marriage certificate that i applyed for before we left SA over a year ago only to be told that it would take 6 weeks.
i do not understand how a government department can take so long to make a copy of something and certify. If it was a company it would have lost it client base ages ago.
just so you have something to judge by, if you apply for a Eu passport in the Uk it takes 2 weeks and you have it compared to Home Affairs 3 months if you lucky, anything else you ask for from the UK Home office you will have the same week.
i dont miss it at all.
April 22nd, 2008 at 2:52 pm
i think sheena needs to get raped, just so that she can know how wrong she is. i know its a disgusting thing to say, but i hate it when people talk of rape like its common-place. clearly she has never been raped and does not know how life-changing it can really be.
this “trying to be positive” does not work for me.
SA does NOT rock!
crime is a SERIOUS problem!
civil war WILL happen within the next 5 years!
SA will keep downgrading until it reaches the point where it will be indistinguishable from other african countries.
sorry for being so pessimistic, but point out to me how this country is getting better in any way? and dont say because people are now free, because people are less free than ever.
the government are stealing from the very people that support them.
the only way this sorry ass country is gonna ever get better is if the majority actually grew some brains and voted for a different political party next elections. but we all know that the vast majority are complete idiots who will vote for the same government who cant supply clean water, electricity, ensure the safety of the people and a government that does not steal from the people.
April 22nd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
There is nothing wrong with wanting to emigrate, and then chnaging your mind. It means you have been thinking about stuff, and not being trivial.
No country is perfect. But some are definitely more perfect than others. That’s just the way it is. Some nations evolve while others shift the blame for their lack of evolution.
But the reality is the reality. And these “So what are you doing about it?” chirps are annoying. Don’t self righteously assume that people aren’t “doing anything about it”. There is a lot “being done” in numerous suburbs and communities; more than ever before, actually. People are allowed to vent and feel frustrated (because their family members are being gang raped and being burnt with petrol) without having to listen to hippie mantra each and every time.
That said, SA is a great place.
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:15 pm
just another thought, the comments in this article illustrates “blind optimism vs pessimistic reality”.
as for what are we doing to change things?
well, it is up to the majority to fix things. most people would think that just because im white is why i wont vote anc. people forget that there were whites that fought for the end of apartheid. there were whites who celebrated the inauguration of nelson mandela.
however, most people in this country vote for anc out of blind loyalty. it does not matter to them that the anc is stealing from them. or that they are running the country into the ground. or that they are to blame for the power crisis, or increase in crime. the anc does not even hold even a resemblance to nelson mandela’s dreams. whilst mandela was fighting for a land for all people of all races, the anc is looking to oust everyone. this country is headed in a one way direction and can only be fixed by the majority who are too stupid to think for themselves.
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:19 pm
last comment,
for those who dont like what i have said, think about it. change can only come from opposition. if you stand by and say “SA rocks”, you are essentially doing nothing to solve the countries problems, because you are denying the problems.
stating the problem and the beliefs of why the problem exists is the start to finding a solution. to shrug your shoulders and say keep a bat next to your bed incase of a rapist, that just coping with the problem rather than fixing it.
and now, i will shut up.
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Fokjulle – I am not being self-righteous at all. I am merely asking a question that I don’t know the answer to. As I stated, I am extremely glad that Matthew decided to reevaluate things and come back and to keep evaluating his decisions. I have said many times before that there is nothing wrong with leaving SA if people do it for the right reasons and don’t leave and badmouth what they run from (if they are running cause not everyone is).
I also do not pass hippin mantra. I merely ask questions that you don’t like because they put people in positions that are uncomfortable. I know there are good things going on in SA and I am glad that you bring that up cause I agree with 100%, there are good people around doing great things and that will pay dividence.
Hugh Jacobs – Watch your mouth. Didn’t your mother ever tell you to be careful about the things that you say for fear of them happening to you? In Greek we call it the “mati” or evil eye. You have no right to wish that sort of thing on anyone and it is attitudes like yours that bring SA down further.
You talk of blind optimism. I am not blind. An optimist, yes, but not blind. I have been affected by crime, I live in the real world, I work in the media, I know what is going on.
Furthermore you blatant racist ignorance is offensive, irrational and uncalled for. Get your facts straight before you start predicting a civil war and calling all black people idiots. I’m not going to bother with you anymore in this response. I think it’s time you rethink your life maybe because your hatred is consuming you and obviously makes your life unbearable. I am not ignorant, I know what’s going on. I choose to stay and fight and overcome the things that get me down.
Mike – Fair enough hey. I am glad that you seem to be happy with your choice and feel that you have done the right thing. That is a great decision made and I will never criticise anyone for making it. But the pessimists on this thread seem to feel the need to destroy other people’s decisions to stay. Why is that? Let her stay if that is her choice, you can’t tell me anything I haven’t heard or seen before, anything, so don’t assume that my choices or Sheena’s are ill-informed.
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Hugh – Look, I agree with the principal of what you are saying, to an extent. That change most likely wont happen from with the ANC. I get it, but holy shit you are an angry dude and pretty racist at that.
Opposition in a democracy is NB NB and you are talking politics without actually talking politics. Analysis of the “top” democracies in the world would show you that they are, in fact, pretty undemocratic in nature. What I am saying is that every democracy has issues. Especially one that is a mere 14 years old. You can say that this is a rubbish idea, but it’s the truth, in political terms what we are going through here is not completely unexpected, especially in an African context. To think we would be a perfect democracy after 14 years is ignorant.
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:51 pm
The comments on this post put on exhibit for all to see the egregious swinery that masquerades as intelligent debate on the state of our nation. It took exactly 3 comments to go from a sliver of a positive outlook back into the mire of narrowminded bullshit that informs debate on politics, economics, culture and society in this country.
It took 8 comments for someone to suggest that the author get raped in order to gain a clearer understanding of where this country is at.
The real question I ask myself is where did we get lost along the path between the first human-shaped creatures living in Sterkfontein and the whinging, complaining, unimaginitive human-shaped creatures living close to there now? Where did we go wrong?
The culture of blame is so temptingly easy. It was the colonialists. Or the blacks. Or the whites. Or the ANC. Or Jacob Zuma. Or Thabo Mbeki. Or Eskom. Anyone and everyone except me, because I’m never to blame for a single thing that ever happens. I’m a victim and I’m sick of it. Right?
No, not right. Like it or not, we got here together. We all made choices and we all made a contribution, or didn’t make a contribution, or cheered on other people’s contributions, or shouted them down, or bigged them up or whatever. That’s called responsibility. And it’s the first step to healing a sickened and bitter view of life.
No-one in their right minds could possibly defend brutal crime or shameless corruption or mindless stupidity. And no-one, for goodness sake, is doing that. Talk about a straw man. To misread an attempt to find a way forward as an apology for wrongdoing is a waste of your time and ours. I for one can’t bear to read that point of view even one more time.
So my latest take on this is: if you’re miserable and you can’t see a way through it, maybe you ought to try your luck somewhere else. I’m not saying “all whingers please go to Australia”. I’m saying: enough suffering. We have enough. We have AIDS and poverty and sorrow of every colour and flavour. We don’t want yours, we don’t want to be the cause of yours.
Please go, go somewhere where you can be happy. Do something with your life other than pointing out all the reasons for us to be miserable. We can’t fix the problems here. We’re trying, but we’re not winning. We can accept that process, but if you can’t, that’s ok. Seriously.
Good luck out there. We’ll send you a postcard when we’re on the other side.
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Nick: 24
Other Commentators: 0
Right Nick, stop being dragged into the mud-slinging. You posted Sheena’s comments because they hold value for you in terms of reasons to stay in South Africa. Sadly, my fellow commentators have regressed into such drivel-like rhetoric that they have lost perspective on what the debate really is. Now, in my mind, the reasons Sheena listed for staying are superficial, pop-positive and baseless in terms of not getting on a booked flight with family waiting for you.
I would really like us, and in particular you and Sheena, to elucidate the reasons for staying in the face of robust debate. You’ll see that I am personally wrestling with making a decision to leave and am quite desperate for solid reasons to stay to curb my anger.
Over to you …
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:53 pm
never once did i say anything racist. this further proves how a white man cant say anything without being called a racist. i have black friends who are smart enough to know what the anc is doing to them.
so for you nic, i simply think you are part of the problem. typical of you to call a white man racist just because he is white. all my comments were made against anc supporters, not all black people. there is a huge difference there. not all black people support anc, which is a racist assumption from yourself.
futhermore, i did say that what i said about that chick getting raped was an ugly thing to say, but really, i think its just as ugly to say, well if a girl gets raped she must keep a bat next to her bed for next time. she is not only condoning rape, but also is stating something very dangerous. if a rapist comes across a woman with a baseball bat, no doubt he will just shoot her, or stab her, or whatever.
essentailly nic, your attitude is so self-rightoues that you cant see past your own mind. you have not been affected by crime just cos you are involved in the media. when someone in your family gets murdered or raped, feel free to reply then.
yes i am angry. i am angry because i have been mugged seven times. because i am tired of looking down the barrel of a gun. because three of my friends have been raped. because cops are going around killing innocent people.
all i can say is, keep your optimism and see where that takes you. as for me, i will keep fighting for a better tomorrow.
April 22nd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Ten years ago I considered taking my family overseas but decided not to. I’m not sorry. Sure ZA has problems, but as Nic says, if more of us were positive and tried to do things to improve matters we could, even if just in a small way.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Hi Guys,
Thank you to everyone for your comments. Believe it or not, I actually do get where you are coming from. Maybe not the rape story, I would absolutely hate for that to happen, Hugh Jacobs, thanks anyway for the thought.
Listen okes, in all seriousness – yes, there is a lot of crime and sadness and heart ache and fear. This post wasn’t about that. Surely there are a thousand other blogs for you to go and post your comments on with debates encouraging you to bad-mouth SA? Why do it on one of the very few sites that actually promote this country.
I will not be drawn into an argument, truth be told – today I really do not have the energy.
In closing, I would suggest you reread my post, once you’ve returned from your sense of humor failure. This post was written in jest. Yes, it was. If you want something more serious and politically written by a blogger, there are thousands.
I’m sorry you had the wrong impression. I merely wanted to do something light-hearted and different to the normal Political articles you read…
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:02 pm
well thats the thing steve.
if i simply keep my mouth shut and dont air these views that are opposing everyone else, am i not just sitting around doing nothing.
surely, my arguments, whether or not you agree with it, is good for the point that it brings about discussion and debate. only once i aired my controversial views has the comments gotten into a real debate.
if people dont stand up and say things that people dont want to hear, then there wont be change. 20 years ago people started speaking there mind, and it ended apartheid. surely, if people opposing the anc speak their views, it will indeed help usher in a new thought process in south africa, where the best political party is voted for.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Sheena,
If you’re going to write something like you did, I’d expect you to stand up for what you said and to substantiate your reasons.
I am very concerned that we have an optimism in this country that is out of touch with reality, and we have a negativity (as evident on this thread) that is just as un-founded.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:06 pm
LM – which reasons are you talking about specifically? I didn’t list any, as far as I’m aware. I merely listed the things about this country I admire (and laugh about).
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Hugh, I wish you’d see that our conversation regressed once you had expressed your views. It did not go into real debate like you believe.
I also wish you’d see that just simply expressing the views you have does not, no matter how many people share in your rhetoric, change governments, topple oppressive political regimes, nor does it result in a constructive outcome.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:10 pm
@Hugh I quote: “the majority who are too stupid to think for themselves.” The majority of the population in SA is black.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Sheena,
You were at one stage ready to leave, and something changed your mind. Am I wrong in assuming that the “humourous” things you wrote about were not the reasons you chose to stay?
In particular, I’d like to hear more about your views on our resilience as a people. It sounded to me like you spoke about our ability to overcomes adversity as reason that we should stay.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Nic: 210
Hugh: yet to get on the scoreboard
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
@Hugh – “if i simply keep my mouth shut and dont air these views that are opposing everyone else, am i not just sitting around doing nothing.” Brilliant point. I agree 100%. But your comments come across as bitter, sour and childish.
And don’t try to throw me in to an “I have been mugged, you have been hijacked” debate. It wont work.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:18 pm
As I have maintained in my continual battle with ignorant people from a lovely FB group, South Africa, on it’s own, DOES NOT ROCK!, which is why if you have had enough of the bullshit, you can just pack and go.
However, we continue to here aspirational stories about South Africans. And those individuals tug at your patriotic strings and have you humming Nkosisikelela or whatever it is people do when they feel the tug. I personally feel like grabbing a Catle Larger.
What SA DOESN’T need. Are the moaners.
You hate it, leave it.
Honestly.
We will raise more in your stead.
Better men and women.
And Sheena, as much as your reasons appear flimsy on the surface, nor do I believe that is why you seriously chose to stay, I can see, you responded to the tug I referred to earlier. This is what it boils down to, being able to sift, from the gory reality that faces each Saffer everyday, the little things that will make you laugh.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:27 pm
…Bridget summed it up for me in better words than I could articulate.
As for the crunch, the final decision maker is actually not part of this topic whatsoever, so I won’t get into that.
LM – if you need to find out more about me, you’re welcome to do some online digging, you won’t have to go very far. Suffice it to say, though, your argument has some valid points.
I just wasn’t referring to them in this particular post.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Nic, if I may make some constructive observations. If you disect what Hugh is saying, it seems as if he is trying to put across that he is angry with the many serious issues facing this country. Now he has a right to be angry under current circumstances, and it is not necessary to criticize that. There are also people on this thread who are saying ‘have people actually lost touch with reality?’ The original article had a part of it that seemed to indicate that the outlook on rape and crime could be made humourous in some way (at least that’s how it came across.) That in itself is enough to make people angry.
Nic, bear with me, I am trying to be optimistic, but it bothers me when we always get asked ‘what difference are we making?’ How much harder must people try and make a difference knowing that the government are not trying to make the same difference. Am I being pessimistic or just realistic? Give us some guidance Nic. We are trying.
April 22nd, 2008 at 5:18 pm
ST – a very fair and rational point that you make. Granted, it is difficult and people are trying. what will you have me say? That it is enough? That it is working and crime is going away? Surely if the problem persists there is not enough being done and surely if the problem isn’t being resolved by the powers that be then the community needs to step in and step up?
It urks me that people’s failsafe is always “the government isn’t doing it, so why should I?” type of argument. This isn’t good enough for me and I will always try to continually ask more of people because If I don’t then apathy will reign, the brain drain will continue and good people will give up.
Overcoming obstacles is not easy, it never was and never will be and if it were there would be none to overcome.
The guidance that I have to offer will always be shunned as “hippie” notions. But I will continue to promote community based grass-roots projects, charities, individual hope, positive thinking, positive action, debate, discussion and mindset shifts as mechanisms to help overcome adversity of any kind.
My view (as puffy/cliched as it may seem) is that if it could be done by Hani, Mandela, Ghandi, Mother Theresa and the like then why is it that in our current crisis that some always state that we have had enough and flee? Surely if more people took pride and passion in change then things would slowly (SLOWLY) start to come right?
April 22nd, 2008 at 5:34 pm
@nic, quote: “@Hugh I quote: “the majority who are too stupid to think for themselves.” The majority of the population in SA is black.”
you misinterpreted. i was referring to anc supporters being the majority. there are plenty of blacks that are not anc supporters, who fall into this minority.
nic, you also labeled me childish. in fact, you only rebuttle was to label me childish and a racist, without actually tackling the points i raised. this in itself is childish.
now to dispell this label as a racist. if tokyo sexwale and jacob zuma both ran as the anc’s presedential candidates, i would vote for tokyo. simply because i think he would be better than anyone than any party could put up. he would be good for the anc and the country as a whole.
now here is what i was trying to get at. when americans voted bush in for a second term, the world, including south africans, went crazy. we all asked ourselves, why would anyone be so stupid to vote for bush after he made so many stuff ups (handling of 911, iraq war, etc). now i am simply asking why would anyone be so stupid to vote for a party which has consistently let the public at large down. they have not lived up to there promises.
i agree on one point you made nic, south africans dont do enough. people only moan about the government but dont do anything themselves. but to quote one very good us president: “ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.”
i am simply speaking my mind so that hopefully, i can change the way south africans think. to simply think for themselves, even if it means going against everyone else. i feel that by opposing sheena’s views, i am trying to open people up to the fight we have ahead. i love this country, i love its people. this is my homeland. i never intend on leaving. this is a great country. but i am not going to sit by and watch it slip away, and definitely not with a smile on my face. we, as south africans, black, white, indian, and everyone else in the rainbow nation, needs to step up and fight for this country.
April 22nd, 2008 at 6:50 pm
final comment:
i think i have summed up my thoughts pretty okay. maybe some things were said in haste, but it is an emotional topic. i guess what got me the most revved was making a joke of rape. having known people have been raped, it angers me to hear issues like rape being turned into jokes.
anyways, i was simply trying to state that i felt the author was trying to make light of very serious issues, that will not go away by poking fun at it. we tried that with zuma. no matter how many zuma jokes were made (hundreds of them), none were able to stop zuma’s popularity with the masses. now, maybe the masses are right and i am wrong. maybe zuma will be the next saving grace. thats just people’s political opinion to which everyone is allowed one.
all i was trying to get at was that people need to think for themselves, and to fight for there country. the fight ahead is going to be tough, and is not laughing matter.
as said, this is my last comment for this article. i didnt mean for this to turn out as such a me vs nic thing. i agree with your principle’s nic, to a degree, but still feel that there is a fight ahead if we are going to make this country what it truely can be, and what we both want it to be.
April 22nd, 2008 at 7:01 pm
What a lot of fuss over an article written by a woman who decided to stay in a country she so obviosly loves.
Sheena’s article did not mention race, but the debate over her writings has turned into a racial debate.
Alex is white. he is an idiot
Jacob is black. he is a joke
Trevor is coloured. he is competent
Tito is black. he is doing a good job
Thabo is black. he is blind
Tokyo and Cyril are black. they are very clever
my “garden boy” is white. he is not too bright
Rapists, gangsters, thieves and other criminals are of all ethnic backgrounds
the government is simply incompetent, but South Africa as a nation is not just the government. It is all of it’s peoples, whether they are discriminated against, or not
April 22nd, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Nic said: “I have said many times before that there is nothing wrong with leaving SA if people do it for the right reasons and don’t leave and badmouth what they run from (if they are running cause not everyone is).”
Actually, there is nothing wrong with leaving SA for WHATEVER reason. Freedom of movement allows for this. And if they badmouth SA, that’s their freedom to do so. Freedom of speech allows for this. If you want the compliments, then you must also accept the converse.
April 22nd, 2008 at 11:13 pm
No Fokjulle, there is something wrong with leaving for the wrong reason. What I meant by that is simple: If people leave for the wrong reason then their problems will follow them and they will never be happy. Leaving for the right reason is the only way for people to be happy wherever they go. That’s what I meant.
Hugh – Ok, your last comment I get, and understand. And I think that we both share the same ideal but express it in VERY different ways. If you had posted your last comment first then this thread probably wouldn’t have been so interesting to read! And don’t get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I think that through reading this thread you realised that you came across quite strongly!! But I always appreciate a great debate, however heated!
April 23rd, 2008 at 8:47 am
Yeah, okay Hugh. Point taken. You are right, maybe I did push it a bit with making a joke out of rape, it isn’t a funny thing, I should have been more sensitive to those who’ve been through it. I apologize.
April 23rd, 2008 at 3:18 pm
No Nic, there are no right or wrong reasons. If you say there are, then please convincingly validate that, and show me where I can find documentation. If you can’t, then you’re merely stating your opinion. And a self righteous one at that.
April 23rd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Hi Nic, thanks for responding to my little comment. You ask what I’ve done to make a difference? I’m a white man who came back. Why? There are others here who cannot get out the country and even though my folks are Irish, I grew up South African and have decided to be South African for only 2 reasons, I could afford a house (euro/rand exchange) and I do enjoy a cup of tea in the sunshine of which I had none in Ireland. After dealing with a helova lotta political correctness in other parts of the world where the coloured person is regarded as a rare and untouchable commodity and the white male akin to the devil, I noted this INCREASED racism between the factions. This situation is 10 times worse in this country. That engineer I mentioned turned down numerous offers from overseas in order to ‘help’ this country through its infant democracy by ensuring the water was safe to drink but guess what?……she had no power, earned a pittance, while our rare and untouchable commodities (apologies to all my black friends for that terminology but that’s what politics does) reaped the financial benefits – the result? She’s moved on and our water is gonna taste like….sh*t? So…I’m going against popular opinion and standing up for the whites of this country…generally ;+). I’m not afraid to be called a racist of which I am not – I merely appreciate our differences and respect them accordingly. We can only help if we’re allowed to. And if they won’t allow us, we’ll have to simply leave I suppose – but not until I have that last cup of tea in the sunshine. Bottoms up old boy.
April 23rd, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Matthew – I’ve repeatedly stated that I applaud you for returning and making another go at it. I have also repeatedly said that I do not berate anyone for leaving and I think that my question was more of a rhetort than an actual question seeking an answer. Everyone does their bit from where they stand and all I’m saying is maybe it’s not enough.
I respect your comment and agree with what you say. I think that we are all “over p.c.” here in SA. If you say “black person” as a white guy you whisper it just in case. I get it, but there are issues and a history that makes things sensitive here, that’s all.
Thanks for your comment and I hope you keep reading!
April 23rd, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Fokjulle you really aren’t getting my drift here. Stop being so agro and listen to what I’m saying.
If you are leaving without being content in your own decisions then your unhappiness is going to follow you. You can’t run away from your problems and I assure you that everyone has their own problems, not only their countries.
Look at it like this: People who leave and criticise the country they came from will always find something to criticise in the country they move to. There isn’t enough sun, too much sun, too much rain, the children in Britain are dangerous, uneducated, cost of living is too high, transport is too slow. I am implying that it isn’t always the country that people flee and if you are moving because you feel that it is right, the best, most sensible and good thing for you in your life and your families then go for it. If you are leaving because “this country is going to the dogs” then that, in my opinion is self-righteous and the wrong reason, without a doubt.
April 23rd, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Nic, I do get what you’re saying, but you’re not getting what I’m saying. You can’t restrict half of one, and allow the other half. You either take the bad with the good, or none at all. Don’t try and control others.
April 23rd, 2008 at 10:07 pm
You are definitely taking my words too literally. I am not controlling anyone, I am insinuating that those who leave have the possibility of taking their problems with them. Im not condemning or restricting anyone.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:41 am
I am with Dave. Someone just wrote why she loved SA.
Amazingly, it digressed into … ag, the same, stereotypical hogwash of a few who cannot except change. Nic, I experienced a similar response on a post I did as a guest (you can follow it from my blog – but it’s in Afrikaans – look for “vuurvliegie”) – admittingly I was more aggressive in my argument about intolerance. I get your point where others fail to: when we cease laying blame we either take responsibility for our own contributions, or become free to recognise that blame is irrelevant – for such things happen as part of the whirligig of life, andlaying blame is a waste of energy which could be better directed ar repairing damage or starting afresh.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Ye, Emil, you get it. The problem can sometimes lie with me, with us and our action and more specifically maybe or lack thereof.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Pastor Nic doesn’t like people disgareeing with him. And when they agree with him, he “applauds” them. “I see that hand! Praise Jesus!”.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
fokjulle – Practice what you preach my man. What do you want me to do, stand down, agree with you all because you challenged my opinion. Forget it.
I stand by what I said. If you don’t like it, let it go and stop trying to be clever it’s not a suit that fits you well.
April 24th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Nic, I’m just ragging you. You’re too easy.
You’re doing a good job with this site. Hence me visiting regularly…
April 24th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
HAHAHAHA – Ok fair enough!! you did get me and I am easy!! It’s just so often that it happens so I jump to the offensive!
I do appreciate the debate and the constant visiting!! It helps!!
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:29 am
Hi,
I’m living in Australia currently. You’re safe here. Thing’s work. Health care is for everyone. You can apply for jobs without them checking your skin colour. Alot feels like the old S.A.
Cons:
It’s not home so you have to make it home.
Miss SA Energy
Miss Beauty
Miss people, culture, food and cheaper holidays (berg, beaches).
July 6th, 2008 at 4:05 am
Hi,
I was emailed a link to your site and was amazed to see the conversations underway. It is amazing to see the positive focus of many and this demonstrates our resilience as a nation. I work in a field that involves facilitation of workshops with people. I recently ran workshops where I was priviledged to travel across SA and have dialogues with groups (mixed in race, occupational level, gender etc). It was humbling to hear some of the things people are doing in their communities to positively shape change. These were people at an ordinary level making daily contributions towards positive change. There were different views on the future for SA and high emeotion and debate. Evidence of the challenge of living with the polarity of the good and bad. I believe strongly that there is more good here than bad. And there is undoubtably bad things happening here. BUT having said that I am going on a 2 year work contract to Australia. I feel very sad at what I am leaving but also hopeful that the country, people, institutions will keep working through the challenges, revitalising & growing. I am not ready to give up on a future here but want the opportunity for my childrent to experience a different reality. My two girls have been hijacked twice with their grandmothers, we have all within our family been touched by crime through armed robberies & hi-jackings. We have managed to bounce through it all for the last 4 years and did get the counselling required. I have used the opportunity to explain to the children the history of our country and why crime is so rampant here. We have got involved in social responsibility initiatives to try contribute our share in shaping the change. But having said that as a familiy we still don’t feel safe living here. When we discussed the possibility of moving to Australia my daughter’s first question to me was “is it safer there?”. So we have decided as a family to try out a different space for 2 years. I feel very sad at leaving what we have here and as friends that are staying have said to us – the people that are remaining are choosing to become part of the solution. I think it takes incredible courage to stay. I commend the people who create these websites, organise marches and are practically & physically engaging with the social problems & helping to create a stronger SA.
March 3rd, 2009 at 10:05 am
Hi guys
I am Portuguese with parents from Mozambique, they left the country 30 years ago, some of the country problems I lived very intensively, but from outside, I haven’t had any bad experience as my family had and hope to not have one. I visit the country three times before on holidays and have been very lucky I suppose, I actually moved to SA 2 months ago, for work and living, I came because I felt always that was something out here I needed to see and experience, I am aware of the problems in all ways, but I have one thing to say:
I think most of you have to get out of this country, try to live in any other for more than 2 years and experience other countries problems, in all sides, and come back to SA completely refreshed, and look from a better view, how great, and beautiful your country is, how much you can do, you can see, and enjoy, try to look to the bright side more than to the negative, as I think you are attracting the negative side of SA to yourself without realising, I read this book before about law of attraction “SECRET” you should read it and try to understand before you made your opinion, and try to put into your life’s, and I can tell you straight away you will change a lot of your life around you, you will never let the negative side affects you again, and that is the attitude we need from all that want to stay and fight for SA,
SA is a stunning country, I never thought I could ever been so happy with such a simple life, meet such a friendly environment, people are nice and smiley all the time, you don’t get that anywhere in the world, the weather is the best, food is fantastic, so concentrate your life’s in good things and leave the bad ones away, is so much you can do, so much opportunities just try to have the best from everything and you will feel less angry, less frustrated and much more happier,
Have you been smiling lately, have you tried to smile to someone that is in a bad mood, angry, or sad; because I believe that no one can ever resist to a smile,
So guys big smile to all of you, and Sheena I agree with you “I love the country and its people.” That is what make this country special but try to not focus in the bad things.
I think you all gone out of the subject, as when I typed “Stunning things in South Africa”, I was actually trying to find more things and places to go and see, experiences I could get, and sadly found this negative debate and approach, I couldn’t resist to just say, if you are angry and sad or even frustrated, this is not the place to get that written, as the subject is stunning things about SA, did you all not get the point????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a great day!
May 12th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
@ LM- You definitely have lost your MOJO bro!
@ fokjulle- FOKJOU..
and now the sad part is.. that this is more mature than that entire thread
August 13th, 2009 at 3:57 am
G’Day Gill,
You will love Australia. It is very safe. And things just work. It is a 1st world compared to ZA which is a 3rd world.
What I am trying to say to Nic is that it is not enough to be possitive and wear blinkers. Nic and his maaitjies really need to do something to change ZA. Being possitive and denying the facts is actually the wrong thing to be.
Nic – get off your butt, get angry and fix things.
August 14th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
dude, how are you. lets have a debate mate.
September 14th, 2009 at 10:07 am
All this fuss. I too have travelled and experienced crime and other problems. I have only been in South Africa for 53 years after having been born in England and lived in India. I had a bit of a problem getting a job at first because no one seemed to know what to do with an Englishman with an Indian education. Someone took a chance on me and I am still here. My only complaints are general incompetence and officials being deployed according to their level in the A N C food chain. Also, government policy is doing a lot to drive skilled people, of all races, to leave for greener pastures. I guess I will stay.
William
November 6th, 2009 at 10:25 am
hi,
I love SA, I really do – the weather, the people, the diversification, the challenges and yes the list could go on as to why….. but and I mean a serious BUT!!!!!! why should I have to walk around with mace or have a baseball bat next to my bed, why should someone feel they have the right to enter my home uninvited? come on girl get a grip on reality and realise that we shouldnt have to bounce back and get over something like crime…. talk about human rights… what of mine as a resident of the county?
with that I just want to end with that crime is world wide so if you leave the country make sure you do it for the right reasons
thank you and good night hehe