We, the youth of South Africa
Recognising the injustices of our past,
honour those who suffered and sacrificed for justice and freedom.
We will respect and protect the dignity of each person, and stand up for justice.
We sincerely declare that we shall uphold the rights and values of our constitution
and promise to act in accordance with the duties and responsibilities
that flow from these rights.
!ke e: /xarra //ke
Nkosi Sikelel’ iAfrika.
This is it. This is what the waves are about, the controversy, the admin, the fighting. And you know what? I can’t decide where I stand.
Let me relay a little story that I have been dying to fit in on SA Rocks somewhere. The apartheid museum in Jo’burg is a phenomenal remembrance of our past in SA. it is explicit, graphic and a staunch look at where we have come from to get to where we are. I think it is a necessary part of our present and possible future.
However I heard once that young kids in school were taken there on a school trip. This is not the problem in my eyes. I take issue with the fact that the children were seperated along racial lines and taken through the museum in very specific contexts. This is wrong.
The children should share the experiences as humans. None of them experienced the injustices of the past so instead of making them try to relate to their race, why not allow them to share in the horror of what happened? Black, White, Indian or any other race should all equally be shocked by the injustices of the past.
Where am I going with this?
I’ll tell you. I like the pledge, although it is somewhat American. In essence I think it can’t be too bad to make children aware of their role in a country, an absolutely important role. However I take task with one sentence – this is the part where my apartheid museum story is relevant – “Recognising the injustices of our past”. Why include this sentence? Why make children bitter from such a young age? Why try to force them to relive something that they were never apart of? Why not just teach them history, the history of our ancestors and of this country? Why the need to state explicitly that we must recognise the injustice? Because in my mind all this is being insinuated is that we recognise the past and are going to get our own back today.
Let it go and move forward, don’t harp on the past. The pledge could be a very positive move, but don’t harp.
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February 21st, 2008 at 10:20 am
I am sorry, but what is wrong with recognizing the injustices of the past. They happened. As soon as history is forgotten it is doomed to be repeated. What is wrong with a reminder of how horrible oppression can be, with the pledge of, by living up to our constitution, never allowing it to happen again. Why can’t children be taught to remember this?
February 21st, 2008 at 10:54 am
I’m a fan of forced subliminal nationalism, especially in a free-thinking, free-moving, free-choice-making democracy. It’s worked absolute wonders in the US.
Except for those Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses, that is. Unpatriotic bastards. We’ll get them yet. Just like in Nazi Germany.
February 21st, 2008 at 12:39 pm
There is nothing wrong with remembering the history – what happened, how things changed, and where we are now. Study it in History like the world wars, vietnam, boer war etc. But I’m sorry – repeating this every single day at school? When we dwell on the past then that is where we stay. I think this sort of thing just fuels animosity between races and what’s done is done. Focus on how we can make SA better and cope with the MASSIVE challenges facing the country which frankly right now looks to the outside world as if it’s headed in the wrong direction. Get on with it. Live and integrate, don’t keep harping on about how the ‘black people’ triumphed over the evil ‘white people’ – that’s not a message condusive to healing and forgiveness.
February 21st, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I’m all for the new pledge. I think it’ll instil a level of respect in the youth of today and the future and should hopefully prevent or minimise the current yob culture seen in the UK where “the youths” have absolutely no respect for anyone, not even their own parents.
One question: Have they removed the coat of arms motto from the pledge? I noticed on both your version and imod’s that the line “!ke e: /xarra //ke” is missing. Check out SouthAfrica.info to see what I mean.
February 21st, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Personally, I prefer this, more balanced and relevant, version of the pledge: http://trashmedia.co.za/2008/02/14/the-school-pledge/
February 21st, 2008 at 5:04 pm
I am sorry, why does it mean, as Bryan believes it means, that is all about how black people triumphed over evil white people?
Obviously Bryan needs some history education. I am white, yet my grandfather was arrested and spent time in prison for fighting against the past’s injustices, he had to get govermental permission to even speak to certain people. He is definitely filled with some residual angst about the apartheid system. I believe that everyone, as the pledge states, should be honoured who suffered and sacrificed for this countries freedom,
or is that not what should happen?
Ignoring something is also not condusive to healing and forgiveness.
Then jeremy… well with the comparison to nazi germany? I assume you are mad, have no common sense, and have not actually read our constitution, and of course have not read the pledge that sits on the top of this page. Truly moronic.
And what is wrong in pledging allegiance to uphold yours and everyone else’s human rights? We are not talking about a pledge of allegiance to the state, we are talking about a pledge of allegiance to human rights, dignity and justice.
I do not understand what is wrong with that. I hope that whether it is the state or the person next to you, goes against tries to destroy any of these human rights that this country fought so hard to gain, you will actually make a point to stop them.
Why are people so scared about pledging themselves to upholding human rights and dignity. I find that mildly scary.
February 21st, 2008 at 5:49 pm
JP. I don’t think you took the time to read my post at all, or anyone else’s. You got an idea in your head and stuck with ignoring all the relevant information. I didn’t say that we shouldn’t remember or be taught the past, but as I state, why harp? Why make an issue out of nothing.
It’s like the Jews today who feel persecuted because of there ancestors struggles. They were not affected at all and now in fact just about own everything! They have triumphed so there is no need to make it an issue anymore.
The children of today should be taught not to repeat the errors of our past. They should not be forced to pledge allegiance to something that they had no involvement in.
February 22nd, 2008 at 6:22 am
I have no objection to the wording of the pledge, but I am in two minds about whether our kids, like the Americans, should have to recite it regularly.
I think it is important to remember the injustices of the past. After the Second World War, in Tito’s Yugoslavia, they tried to forget the injustices of the past and sweep them under the carpet, and avoid any mention of them, but rather to move forward in “brotherhood and unity”.
But the injustices of the past would not stay under the carpet, and in the 1990s someone lifted the carpet and the result was the Wars of the Yugoslav Succession, which are not over yet.
Don’t try to forget the injustices of the past, otherwise they may come back to haunt you. Keep them in mind, so that you can avoid them in future.
If I do something stupid while driving, and have an accident, then trying to forget what I did wrong is really not the best thing to do. But one shouldn’t be morbidly obsessed by it either. Rather one should remember the injustices of the past to be able to avoid them in future.
February 22nd, 2008 at 11:59 am
I don’t think this pledge is morbidly obsessed with the injustices of the past… It has one line in rememberance of them, and one line for those who sacrificed for this country… Harping? Morbidly obsessed?
And then Nic? The jews own just about everything? interesting comment…
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Though I do think it says a lot about people who are scared of those t20 quite short lines…
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:04 pm
sorry, t2o = two
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:51 pm
@jp – that was a bit tongue-in-cheek as they say… meant to illustrate that as a community many of them are not struggling at all and if fact have a very strong presence in many diverse market places.
February 23rd, 2008 at 1:37 pm
JP, before you continue your character attacks and other hippie agendas, consider this.
What the words are, or how uplifting they are, isn’t important. The resulting mind control, as a result of indoctrination via regular forced recitals, is the problem. Especially in a society claiming to be free and fair; otherwise known as a “democracy”. (Or as Bullard says, “demockracy”.)
Children are influenced the easiest; hence the schools being targeted; hence it being a form of easy manipulation. If the pledge is such a fantastic idea, why not implement it in areas such as the mines, corporate businesses, the SAPS, the media houses, universities, etc? Obviously this won’t happen, because adults are less likely to be influenced by a meaningless bunny-loving kissie-poo pledge, nor are they likely to change their ways of thinking.
This isn’t about racism, nor is it about the wording of the pledge. And if you think it is either, go bogwash yourself.
February 24th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Go bogwash myself… hmm residual overflowing angst detected… Mind control? Is a school song mind control? Should they be banned? Is shouting warcries during a rugby match mind control? Should that be banned? Should saying we should be considerate of other peoples rights mind control?
Yes I agree there should be a pledge to upholding everyones rights, in the mines, in the media houses, in government, in the universities… Why because there does not seem to be that culture in South Africa. People have forgotten what people fought for, were imprisoned for and died for in this country, both sides, black and white. Should we instil in our children a rememberance of that as well as a positive concept of the future in which peoples rights and dignity are held sacred, Why the hell not?
It is exactly the point that adults are less inclined to change there ways of thinking, and in South Africa what I have personally experienced from the adult perspective is sometimes downright disgusting, and this is what will get passed onto their kids.
Why is the pledge meaningless? Do you not believe people sacrificed so this generation does not have to live under apartheid? Do you not believe that peoples rights and dignity should be upheld…
Oh wait sorry, you are a rebel… you want to be different, nobody can make you say that you should uphold people rights, respect their dignity, remember those that fought and died for it, because that would just be plain fascist.
moronic.
February 24th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
@ nic… nice come back, yet maybe the reason for that is they have never forgotten the holocaust, realised that supporting and looking to the future is of the utmost importance, whilst never forgetting the past.
February 25th, 2008 at 12:04 am
JP, I didn’t sing my school song. And my friends who were Jehovah’s Witnesses didn’t either. And the song certainly did nothing for patriotism to the school.
But you’re missing something here. War cries and school songs and singing the anthem isn’t something that should be forced. It should be a choice. And most of the time, it is a choice. And if you feel it should be forced, then I wonder about your understanding of “democracy”…
February 25th, 2008 at 12:10 am
Here’s my version of the pledge. I think it’s more relevant and more appropriate – especially to our youth.
February 26th, 2008 at 12:50 am
Thanks for the link back Nic, this topic seems to be incredibly popular. I’ve got over 75 comments on my post – amazing!
February 27th, 2008 at 9:40 am
well jeremy as funny as you are trying to be, that is the pledge that south africans are living by today. Wouldn’t it be better if we gave them a new one?
February 27th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
JP, I’m not opposed to the pledge. I’m opposed to it being forced. It should rather be an option. For example, many religious types would choose not to recite it. By forcing them to do so, you’re not allowing them the freedom that a democracy allows.
February 27th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
so by forcing people to drive on the left hand side of the road, does that lead to it not being a democracy.
Sometimes measures do need to be forced for society, and as long as they are good messages like, don’t steal, don’t murder, respect those rights of others around you, I don’t see what the big deal is.
And you obviously have no real idea what a democracy is. A democracy is a political system that allows the voting majority to decide who leads them, in its simplest terms.
We in South Africa have redifined it into what is called a constitutional democracy, where freedoms are protected, by limiting other freedoms, to make sure it is a fair a playing field between everybody as possible. (in its simplest possible terms).
By virtue of the democracy we have in this country freedoms are limited, why? because sometimes the majority is not right.
So your argument makes no real sense… In fact it is pretty much the three year old response of, “YOU CAN’T MAKE ME!”
Yes it is sometimes good to be a rebel and stand up against authority when they get it wrong, but to stand up against them when they are trying to do something right and good, well, all that happens is nothing. Everything becomes stuck, the cogs of beaurocracy stop moving and we are stuck with the exact same situation in our schools tomorrow as we have today.
And then you will scream, why has no-one done anything about this.
February 28th, 2008 at 1:13 am
Tell you what, JP; continue believing what you want to believe about definitions. And continue patronising me with your really boring nationalist-styled arguments. And continue with your silly comparisons with cars and whatever else.
That’s cool by me.
And when we scream about why “nobody has done anything”, we’ll blame it on the absence of a pledge. Oh, and apartheid. (Mustn’t forget apartheid.)
I maintain my stance: the pledge is fine, when it is not forced.
February 28th, 2008 at 1:21 am
Ugh, what the hell. I’ll respond to your chirp about being forced to drive on the left.
You’re welcome to drive on the right (and no one is stopping you, since you have the choice), but if you end up killing yourself – or others – I suspect things might become a bit complicated.
That is, your choice could probably be deemed as “quite kak”.
February 28th, 2008 at 8:28 am
you are not welcome to drive on the right, hopefully the police will pull you over and give you a warning, and after that if you are caught a few times they will take away your driving license.
You are not free to do anything you want, that is called anarchy.
I am sorry if I sound patronising but you obviously had no idea what a democracy was. And with the racist attacks that seem to be growing on a daily basis in this country, I still find it troubling why people do not want to pledge a remembrance to the the past and an attempt to rectify the future.
Why are they “nationalist style arguments”?
February 28th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Of course I know what a democracy is. And by extension, I obviously know what is included. (See “freedom of movement” and everything else that our Constitution provides.)
I am citing “nationalism” because you can’t force citizens into believing something, or force them to be patriotic. Those ideals that you’re wanting, come from a happy country, and a happy environment, and a happy ethos, and good leadership. Not some mantra shoved down the throats of 7-year-olds. (Especially when they go back to a shack to find a raped sister, a murdered uncle, an AIDS-infected mother with no ARVs, and a father on tik.)
February 28th, 2008 at 9:40 am
But JP, this is a silly discussion anyway. You’re going to, most likely, get your way (and end up having a jolly old time with your pledge that you love so dearly).
So ignore me; I’m just a rebel (without a cause?), as you pointed out.
March 11th, 2008 at 8:43 am
look, i am a south african, teenager.
However I am not living in SA, thus I do not really have a major understanding of everything happenin over there.
Surely, though, we should apologize for our parents/grandparents wrong-doings, even if they didnt realize what they were doing. It’s a pity, because the white South African youth didnt have anything to do with it!, they shouldn’t suffer for it. Thus if we agree to it, the Govt and the ‘black south africa’ must then forgive us and the past, and get over it.